4 ms·

Or that they could buy it from Goodwill. Or a garage sale. Or through Craigslist. Or at any of the myriad furniture outlet stores that sell flawed and used furn

by cheald 12y ago

Or that they could buy it from Goodwill. Or a garage sale. Or through Craigslist. Or at any of the myriad furniture outlet stores that sell flawed and used furniture at pennies on the dollar. There are lots of options, but they usually involve paying cash, which means having the discipline to save cash for what you want and not spend it when you want something else.

mikeash 12y ago
Or pick stuff up off the street on garbage day. Been there, done that, still have a garbage-rescue stool sitting around my expensive townhouse.
- hawkice 12y ago
  Or not own a couch. I have literally never owned a couch. When did this become a need?
  - cheald 12y ago
    I was waiting for this point to come up, and while I think there's validity to it (nobody requires a couch), creature comforts can be a significant part of your quality of life. Having a comfortable place to come home to at the end of the day can make it a lot easier to get through that day. However, if the cost of that comfort exceeds the benefit of it (that is, it places such a financial strain on you that the comfort is effectively offset by the stress of having no money), then it's not a net benefit to own. So, you either don't own it, or you find a way to own it that doesn't introduce you to crippling financial stress - the latter option being the one espoused in this particular thread.
    - hawkice 12y ago
      (quoting you from another branch in this discussion): > They aren't victims of their circumstances, they're victims of their own consumerism. Yes, creature comforts should be comforting and worthwhile instead of anxiety inducing money sinks. But I think sometimes advice about _when_ to buy creature comforts can be lost on people who have never had the opportunity to know the deep comfort involved with having some savings they don't intend to spend. I'd rather have money sit in a bank account slowly losing value to inflation than buy a couch, TV, game console, etc. It's WAY nicer, and I think part of the reason people get caught in traps like this is that the advice they get about how to manage finances doesn't clue them into this.
      - AtmaScout 12y ago
        I could not agree with you more.
- pluma 12y ago
  Sure, but the status implications of doing this severely depend on your general situation. If you have an expensive townhouse, picking up furniture off the street can be seen as either being clever with your money or even "artsy" (especially if your refurbish it before putting it in your expensive townhouse). If you are dirt poor, it just reaffirms your inability to afford actually spending money on things like that. And because being actually poor (e.g. being raised in a poor family, lacking a reasonable level of education, having bad job prospects (no chance of career advancement), working three crappy jobs to barely sustain your household without being able to put any money aside, and so on) carries a lot of stigma, poor people tend to be more self-conscious about how poor they appear to their peers (especially peers that do buy expensive crap even if they have to sign this kind of bullshit contracts). There's also a distinct difference between being poor as a student or entrepreneur (because being poor is just a temporary thing and it's seen as a temporary sacrifice) versus being poor as a regular part of the workforce (why don't you just save some of the money or work more?) or unemployed (why aren't you working?) or even long-term unemployed (why haven't you been working? or from the employer side: there must obviously be something wrong with you or else you would have been working).
  - mikeash 12y ago
    I agree, and that stigma is part of what creates poverty traps. However, it's still an option, and still something the article should consider before painting these ripoff artists as the "only option."

by cheald 12y ago

mikeash 12y ago

Or pick stuff up off the street on garbage day. Been there, done that, still have a garbage-rescue stool sitting around my expensive townhouse.

hawkice 12y ago
Or not own a couch. I have literally never owned a couch. When did this become a need?
- cheald 12y ago
  I was waiting for this point to come up, and while I think there's validity to it (nobody requires a couch), creature comforts can be a significant part of your quality of life. Having a comfortable place to come home to at the end of the day can make it a lot easier to get through that day. However, if the cost of that comfort exceeds the benefit of it (that is, it places such a financial strain on you that the comfort is effectively offset by the stress of having no money), then it's not a net benefit to own. So, you either don't own it, or you find a way to own it that doesn't introduce you to crippling financial stress - the latter option being the one espoused in this particular thread.
  - hawkice 12y ago
    (quoting you from another branch in this discussion): > They aren't victims of their circumstances, they're victims of their own consumerism. Yes, creature comforts should be comforting and worthwhile instead of anxiety inducing money sinks. But I think sometimes advice about _when_ to buy creature comforts can be lost on people who have never had the opportunity to know the deep comfort involved with having some savings they don't intend to spend. I'd rather have money sit in a bank account slowly losing value to inflation than buy a couch, TV, game console, etc. It's WAY nicer, and I think part of the reason people get caught in traps like this is that the advice they get about how to manage finances doesn't clue them into this.
    - AtmaScout 12y ago
      I could not agree with you more.
pluma 12y ago
Sure, but the status implications of doing this severely depend on your general situation. If you have an expensive townhouse, picking up furniture off the street can be seen as either being clever with your money or even "artsy" (especially if your refurbish it before putting it in your expensive townhouse). If you are dirt poor, it just reaffirms your inability to afford actually spending money on things like that. And because being actually poor (e.g. being raised in a poor family, lacking a reasonable level of education, having bad job prospects (no chance of career advancement), working three crappy jobs to barely sustain your household without being able to put any money aside, and so on) carries a lot of stigma, poor people tend to be more self-conscious about how poor they appear to their peers (especially peers that do buy expensive crap even if they have to sign this kind of bullshit contracts). There's also a distinct difference between being poor as a student or entrepreneur (because being poor is just a temporary thing and it's seen as a temporary sacrifice) versus being poor as a regular part of the workforce (why don't you just save some of the money or work more?) or unemployed (why aren't you working?) or even long-term unemployed (why haven't you been working? or from the employer side: there must obviously be something wrong with you or else you would have been working).
- mikeash 12y ago
  I agree, and that stigma is part of what creates poverty traps. However, it's still an option, and still something the article should consider before painting these ripoff artists as the "only option."