5 ms·

I'm an AirBnB host in NYC, and this report makes clear that there is rampant abuse in NYC by landlords acting as hotels. This drives up rents for residents as i

by gdilla 12y ago

I'm an AirBnB host in NYC, and this report makes clear that there is rampant abuse in NYC by landlords acting as hotels. This drives up rents for residents as it reduces supply of long term housing and inflates landlords expectations on what they can charge. I like Airbnb for how well it enables buyers and sellers to come together and transact. I don't know what a good solution is. Either charge hotel tax or get rid of hotel taxes for actual hotels so they can better compete on price? I don't know. I'm not sure Airbnb is doing themselves any favors by not cooperating with the AG, however. The 'Commercial Users" are operating secret hotels and getting away with it.

bradleyjg 12y ago
Do you rent out an entire apartment in a building with 3 or more units for 30 or fewer days at a time? If so, you are one of those people participating in rampant abuse.
- baddox 12y ago
  What's special about the numbers 3 and 30?
  - bradleyjg 12y ago
    They were chosen as part of the legislative process to balance competing concerns. There's a line drawing problem involved in going from tourist hotels to furnished leases, but that doesn't mean that the two aren't distinct phenomenons any more than similar definitional problems mean there's no such thing as baldness.
- gdilla 12y ago
  Uh, no... I live in a one bedroom apt and rent out my bedroom while I take the couch. If i'm present in the apt, it's perfectly legal (as long as the stays are less than 28 days).
o0-0o 12y ago
I live in Manhattan below a previous AirBNB host that was thrown out of our building by management. Her guests flooded my apartment twice, causing thousands of dollars of damage to my property. How do I go about getting reimbursed for these items?
- smackfu 12y ago
  Well, from your perspective, I don't see why it matters whether the damage to you was done by your neighbor or by your neighbor's guests. It's still the neighbor's responsibility.
  - tptacek 12y ago
    It does matter. Revolving-door short term tenants drastically increase the risk of incidents like this, as you'd find out immediately if you tried to insure against them. Renters are routinely required to carry some degree of insurance. If Airbnb adoption meant near-universal requirements to carry punishing insurance coverage, that's yet another externality they'd be inflicting on the market. (I like Airbnb but see how fraught it is, too).
    - mbreese 12y ago
      It does matter, but less to you and more to your insurance company. It's more like the your renter's insurance company would sue the neighbor's company for a claim. However, since the neighbor was renting out the apartment as an Airbnb property, then their standard renter's insurance was probably invalid at the time. So now your insurance company would sue the neighbor directly and may not be able to pay. The long term implications are that renter's insurance costs will go up for everyone in that market. I've long thought that the biggest problem with Airbnb wasn't the tax issue, or even landlords abusing the system and running mini-hotels. It was insurance. I suspect that none of the hosts who aren't physically present (and even some who are) are violating their insurance policy, and if there is a HOA or other sort of shared space, that insurance policy would also be violated. If hosts had to actually pay the true costs of insurance, the cost savings between traditional hotels and Airbnb would be much smaller. Now, if Airbnb actually offered the insurance to the hosts, or maintained it themselves, that would be something. But that would be fraught with fraud issues over such a wide market. But insurance isn't a sexy topic...
josu 12y ago
If there is demand for staying at "secret hotels" why should the regulator ban that? The only problem that I see is that this income might not be currently being taxed. Just get Airbnb to share their data with the IRS and problem solved. And if hotels go out of business, good riddance. If consumers rather pay a bit less and stay in a house or an apartment, why should the regulator want to mess with their preferences? As of: >This drives up rents for residents as it reduces supply of long term housing and inflates landlords expectations on what they can charge. Take down hotels and build apartment buildings. If as you say the demand is there, the market should take care of it. Although hotels tend to be more space efficient, so new apartment buildings could not be enough to completely offset the price surge.
- nostromo 12y ago
  > get Airbnb to share their data with the IRS and problem solved Airbnb does this already.
- opendais 12y ago
  > If there is demand for staying at "secret hotels" why should the regulator ban that? The problem is they are secret from the regulators too and aren't following the regulations. > Take down hotels and build apartment buildings. If as you say the demand is there, the market should take care of it. Although hotels tend to be more space efficient, so new apartment buildings could not be enough to completely offset the price surge. That isn't how it works. The market doesn't magically fix things when the financial incentive is towards the decision without the "social good" of providing housing to residents. Harmful externalities are something the market blindly ignores because capital can just ignore the damage.
  - josu 12y ago
    >The problem is they are secret from the regulators too and aren't following the regulations. Which regulations? >Harmful externalities are something the market blindly ignores because capital can just ignore the damage. What harmful externalities apply to this case?
soneca 12y ago
I am going to NYC next year, planning to use AirBnb, but I would like to stay away of these professional hosts that actually run illegal hotels whose neighbors hate them. If you can contact me, I would love to consider your place among my options. It is very hard to know if it is a "legit" host or a professional one through the site only, let alone find out the acceptance of the neighbors.
- pyrophane 12y ago
  Actually, it is pretty easy to find a "legit" Airbnb listing. Just look for listings where the host is renting a room in an apartment where they will be present during your stay. Otherwise, the listing is almost guaranteed to be for an illegal hotel.
  - soneca 12y ago
    Is it that hard to be the case where a host is on vacations and want to make some money from his few weeks out? When I first heard of AirBnb that was the case I thought when it made the most sense.
    - mjmahone17 12y ago
      In NYC, that would still be illegal. One of the long-term tenants of the apartment must be staying in the apartment with any short-term guests. If you have a 2-bedroom apartment, one roommate could host while the other goes on vacation. But they can't both be gone at the same time.
AJ007 12y ago
I would suggest NYC work harder on enforcing those rules which apply to landlords which relate specifically to safety -- I've seen some pretty astonishing abuse. One of the shortfalls from Airbnb, Uber, and other human to human services is that their initial growth & design comes from early adapter use. I can't provide hard facts but the people who use things earlier tend to be a little smarter and a little saner. This observation is based on what happens to online communities as they expand. Airbnb has built a system, when used the way it was originally intended, with well meaning hosts and gracious renters everything works great. As it transitions to a mass market product dynamics change. You have people gaming the system, hosting sex parties, attacking you with hammers (bad joke), etc. Government & city regulations have a lot to do with managing the "riff raff." Taxes, revenue, rent, these things matter to a lesser degree than personal safety. Airbnb, Uber, and all of these other sharing services need to think really hard about this. If you are launching your AirBNB/Uber for X service, and your early adapters are already the mass market, acquired through ad campaigns. Watch the hell out.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

by gdilla 12y ago

bradleyjg 12y ago

Do you rent out an entire apartment in a building with 3 or more units for 30 or fewer days at a time? If so, you are one of those people participating in rampant abuse.

baddox 12y ago
What's special about the numbers 3 and 30?
- bradleyjg 12y ago
  They were chosen as part of the legislative process to balance competing concerns. There's a line drawing problem involved in going from tourist hotels to furnished leases, but that doesn't mean that the two aren't distinct phenomenons any more than similar definitional problems mean there's no such thing as baldness.
gdilla 12y ago
Uh, no... I live in a one bedroom apt and rent out my bedroom while I take the couch. If i'm present in the apt, it's perfectly legal (as long as the stays are less than 28 days).

o0-0o 12y ago

I live in Manhattan below a previous AirBNB host that was thrown out of our building by management. Her guests flooded my apartment twice, causing thousands of dollars of damage to my property. How do I go about getting reimbursed for these items?

smackfu 12y ago
Well, from your perspective, I don't see why it matters whether the damage to you was done by your neighbor or by your neighbor's guests. It's still the neighbor's responsibility.
- tptacek 12y ago
  It does matter. Revolving-door short term tenants drastically increase the risk of incidents like this, as you'd find out immediately if you tried to insure against them. Renters are routinely required to carry some degree of insurance. If Airbnb adoption meant near-universal requirements to carry punishing insurance coverage, that's yet another externality they'd be inflicting on the market. (I like Airbnb but see how fraught it is, too).
  - mbreese 12y ago
    It does matter, but less to you and more to your insurance company. It's more like the your renter's insurance company would sue the neighbor's company for a claim. However, since the neighbor was renting out the apartment as an Airbnb property, then their standard renter's insurance was probably invalid at the time. So now your insurance company would sue the neighbor directly and may not be able to pay. The long term implications are that renter's insurance costs will go up for everyone in that market. I've long thought that the biggest problem with Airbnb wasn't the tax issue, or even landlords abusing the system and running mini-hotels. It was insurance. I suspect that none of the hosts who aren't physically present (and even some who are) are violating their insurance policy, and if there is a HOA or other sort of shared space, that insurance policy would also be violated. If hosts had to actually pay the true costs of insurance, the cost savings between traditional hotels and Airbnb would be much smaller. Now, if Airbnb actually offered the insurance to the hosts, or maintained it themselves, that would be something. But that would be fraught with fraud issues over such a wide market. But insurance isn't a sexy topic...

josu 12y ago

If there is demand for staying at "secret hotels" why should the regulator ban that? The only problem that I see is that this income might not be currently being taxed. Just get Airbnb to share their data with the IRS and problem solved. And if hotels go out of business, good riddance. If consumers rather pay a bit less and stay in a house or an apartment, why should the regulator want to mess with their preferences? As of: >This drives up rents for residents as it reduces supply of long term housing and inflates landlords expectations on what they can charge. Take down hotels and build apartment buildings. If as you say the demand is there, the market should take care of it. Although hotels tend to be more space efficient, so new apartment buildings could not be enough to completely offset the price surge.

nostromo 12y ago
> get Airbnb to share their data with the IRS and problem solved Airbnb does this already.
opendais 12y ago
> If there is demand for staying at "secret hotels" why should the regulator ban that? The problem is they are secret from the regulators too and aren't following the regulations. > Take down hotels and build apartment buildings. If as you say the demand is there, the market should take care of it. Although hotels tend to be more space efficient, so new apartment buildings could not be enough to completely offset the price surge. That isn't how it works. The market doesn't magically fix things when the financial incentive is towards the decision without the "social good" of providing housing to residents. Harmful externalities are something the market blindly ignores because capital can just ignore the damage.
- josu 12y ago
  >The problem is they are secret from the regulators too and aren't following the regulations. Which regulations? >Harmful externalities are something the market blindly ignores because capital can just ignore the damage. What harmful externalities apply to this case?

soneca 12y ago

I am going to NYC next year, planning to use AirBnb, but I would like to stay away of these professional hosts that actually run illegal hotels whose neighbors hate them. If you can contact me, I would love to consider your place among my options. It is very hard to know if it is a "legit" host or a professional one through the site only, let alone find out the acceptance of the neighbors.

pyrophane 12y ago
Actually, it is pretty easy to find a "legit" Airbnb listing. Just look for listings where the host is renting a room in an apartment where they will be present during your stay. Otherwise, the listing is almost guaranteed to be for an illegal hotel.
- soneca 12y ago
  Is it that hard to be the case where a host is on vacations and want to make some money from his few weeks out? When I first heard of AirBnb that was the case I thought when it made the most sense.
  - mjmahone17 12y ago
    In NYC, that would still be illegal. One of the long-term tenants of the apartment must be staying in the apartment with any short-term guests. If you have a 2-bedroom apartment, one roommate could host while the other goes on vacation. But they can't both be gone at the same time.

AJ007 12y ago

I would suggest NYC work harder on enforcing those rules which apply to landlords which relate specifically to safety -- I've seen some pretty astonishing abuse. One of the shortfalls from Airbnb, Uber, and other human to human services is that their initial growth & design comes from early adapter use. I can't provide hard facts but the people who use things earlier tend to be a little smarter and a little saner. This observation is based on what happens to online communities as they expand. Airbnb has built a system, when used the way it was originally intended, with well meaning hosts and gracious renters everything works great. As it transitions to a mass market product dynamics change. You have people gaming the system, hosting sex parties, attacking you with hammers (bad joke), etc. Government & city regulations have a lot to do with managing the "riff raff." Taxes, revenue, rent, these things matter to a lesser degree than personal safety. Airbnb, Uber, and all of these other sharing services need to think really hard about this. If you are launching your AirBNB/Uber for X service, and your early adapters are already the mass market, acquired through ad campaigns. Watch the hell out.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]