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That sounds like a pain for my desktop, but implies there's still hope to use a simpler init on my servers so long as the coupling doesn't increase.
by KayEss 12y ago
That sounds like a pain for my desktop, but implies there's still hope to use a simpler init on my servers so long as the coupling doesn't increase.
- ultramancool 12y agoMy advice: consider a move to FreeBSD on servers. I know it might seem drastic, but if you're looking for a simpler init system, they've probably got a closer philosophy to you anyways. That's what I've found at least, their rc system is dead simple, like Arch used to be before they started making changes to allow for systemd. I miss the day's of arch's rc.conf.
- KayEss 12y agoI clearly need to learn a lot more about FreeBSD (and it's cousins) but unfortunately we're committed to Docker for server deployments.
- efaref 12y agoDebian's sysvinit script wrappers were not in any way simple.
- lucian1900 12y agoBut servers is precisely where systemd is particularly useful. Having tools to interact with the init system and proper logging are invaluable.
- edwintorok 12y agoSome may disagree that binary logs or putting coredumps into your journal are the "proper" way to handle logging. Sure there is some additional information that systemd stores in logs that syslog wouldn't, but implementing that could've been done while keeping the main log text-only (eg: have an id for each logline in your human-readable text logs, and have the binary/index etc separate that refer to that id).
- pessimizer 12y ago>Some may disagree that binary logs or putting coredumps into your journal are the "proper" way to handle logging. No need to be quite so weaselly: 'Many disagree...' is something I'm pretty sure you could provide references for if pressed.
- felixgallo 12y agoHi, I've run infrastructure and software projects involving thousands of machines for companies with over a trillion dollars in asset under management. Binary logs and putting coredumps in your journal are stupid and anyone who does that doesn't understand the first thing about running systems.
- EmanueleAina 12y agoI'm not a professional sysadmin (at least not at your level) seriously curious why a binary log is so bad. I guess in big deployment logs are collected to a central location, so I don't understand the "corruption" issue many people usually raise. Also, what's so bad about coredumps? You can disable storing them in the journal, discarding them or saving them in a separate location (which is the default). Where coredumps are rare (which I guess it's the case in most of the deployments) it seem nice having a clean, standardized way to manage them.
- lucian1900 12y agoStructured data is very useful. Just because many unix folks have managed to extract some meaning out of random text for so long doesn't mean it's a good idea. This is the same thing I see about HTTP/2. It's good to finally remove a huge number of parsing errors and inefficiencies!
- edwintorok 12y agoI'd be less opposed to journald if it used SQLite instead of its own format, but I still think that logs don't belong in a binary file by default: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7210570 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7210570
- digi_owl 12y agoAnd that's part of the problem. Some systemd parts makes sense for server, some make sense for desktop, but trying to select just those that fit scenario X is a pain in the behind.
- lucian1900 12y agoIt's really good on a desktop as well, particularly for laptops. Services come and go based on what's plugged in, etc. systemd is the launchd for Linux I've been wanting for years.