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I live in Michigan, and was dishearten when I read about this story the other day. But not really that surprised. A few observations: - Tesla isn't a name bra

I live in Michigan, and was dishearten when I read about this story the other day. But not really that surprised. A few observations: - Tesla isn't a name brand here like Ford or GM. In fact, if you asked a lot of people if we should help the Big Three with this sort of legislation, you might be surprised by the answer. Remember, they generate a LOT of jobs in this state: not just the Big Three, but the tier 2 and tier 3 manufactors. While I think logic would win out in the day, I wouldn't assume that everybody in Michigan _wants_ Tesla. It isn't in their best interest. - I haven't seen one media story about this yet, outside of social media. - We're in the middle of an election cycle year, including a gubernatorial race. So, the special interests picked a good time to insert this language: there are a lot of problems the state is still dealing with, including Detroit going through bankruptcy. And people want the money to win races. Personally, I'd love to see Telsa in the state, both the cars and charging stations. But, honestly, Telsa isn't going to get much traction here until they improve cold weather battery performance.

clarebear 12y ago
My retired father-in-law who lives in a suburb of Detroit got a car that was not manufactured by the by the Big Three a couple years ago. He felt so much social pressure that he quickly returned it and got one that was. He told me that some "foreign" cars would be egged in his neighborhood. I put foreign in quotes, as big three cars are not always manufactured in the US and sometimes other cars are manufactured here. But if you are from Detroit, where the headquarters is and the profits go back to matters most, and tangibly matters.
- untothebreach 12y ago
  and friend of mine's father drives around Flint, MI in a Honda Civic with the license plate "GMLEFT." Needless to say, he has frequently had to deal with vandalism. The truth hurts.
- phurley 12y ago
  I live in a Detroit suburb, a large number of the residents here are engineers, many for GM, Ford and Chrysler, but quite a few for Toyota, Hyundai and other foreign suppliers (like Bosch and Yazaki). I see many domestic, but almost as many imports here. I think a lot of the stigma is gone, certainly there is considerable pressure for people to drive their employers vehicle to work, but at least in my (relatively upscale) neighborhood, I would feel no social pressure against, and I bet I would have a bunch of engineers come visit, if I dug up a 100k and put a Tesla in my driveway.
  - zenocon 12y ago
    Agree. I worked for one of these three companies for a span. While I was there, they did have a rule that if you're not driving their car, you can't park it in the covered parking lot. That was the extent of the backlash, and I've lived in this area most of my life. I think a lot of these stories and anecdotes about tires getting slashed, and people being harassed for driving foreign are not accurate today.
    - 67726e 12y ago
      I think part of that might be the crowds you hang with. I would expect petty vandalism more from blue collar types than I would engineers and other professional types.
    - imroot 12y ago
      I've been a contractor for one of the Big 3 at one point in the early 2000's. I was given a Kia at Enterprise to drive, and when I came out on my first day, it was encased with no less than 300 pallets and shrinkwrap. Apparently, they forgot to tell me that you shouldn't drive a non-UAW vehicle onto the parking lot. Enterprise's Roadside Assistance guy was not happy with me when he had to help me pull the pallets away so I could get my vehicle out.
  - busyant 12y ago
    I agree that there's not a stigma for driving a foreign car around Detroit anymore. Interestingly, my father worked for Chrysler outside of Detroit from the late 1950s into the 1970s. And oddly enough, he drove a VW Beetle in the 1960s. As you can imagine, when things were good, he was just viewed as the eccentric guy who drove a puny foreign car (why would anybody in their right mind do that?). In the 1970s (and 1980s) doing something similar was probably a moderately dangerous move. I've been back many times during my life and in the 1990s and onward, I see plenty of foreign cars.
- hueving 12y ago
  There is a big difference between the big 3 and dealers. In fact, wiping the requirements for this middlescum would help the big 3 as well.
  - mikeash 12y ago
    But does the Average Michigan Joe understand that?
- carsonreinke 12y ago
  That is a bunch of BS, this is not Detroit of the 70s, that stuff doesn't happen. People drive foreign cars around just like any other area.
  - NoPiece 12y ago
    In Michigan, 79% of new cars purchased are Ford, GM, or Chrysler. In California, 22%. http://wot.motortrend.com/patriotic-car-shopping-which-states-buy-detroit-three-the-most-383699.html http://wot.motortrend.com/patriotic-car-shopping-which-state...
    - carsonreinke 12y ago
      Yes, of course there is going to be more, people usually work for those companies and get discounts. Vandalism, aggression, nope.
nathanm412 12y ago
Cold weather performance is trumpeted a lot by EV detractors, but the number one selling new car in Norway last month was the Tesla Model S. http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/08/tesla-norway-idUSL6N0HX1CH20131008 http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/08/tesla-norway-idUSL... Here's an interesting interview from Elon Musk about the Tesla battery winter performance. http://cleantechnica.com/2013/03/01/interview-with-elon-musk-on-tesla-model-s-performance-in-cold-weather/ http://cleantechnica.com/2013/03/01/interview-with-elon-musk...
- exDM69 12y ago
  I live in a very cold place with weather comparable to Norway. There are lots of problems when it comes to dealing with cars in the winter. I have no doubt that Tesla could be a decent choice for a car, but it makes perfect sense to be a bit wary about electric vehicles manufactured in California sunshine, especially if you don't have a garage to store the car in. In addition to battery life and cabin heating issues, there can be lots of small problems. I'm a bit worried about the fancy electric door handles, for example. I've been locked out of my car because the locks were frozen and sometimes even the doors themselves frozen solid. I have no doubt that Tesla can overcome these issues but they will have to do extensive testing as well as make it known to the public that their car is a reliable vehicle even in wintertime. People up here in the north tend to favor simple and solid cars and marketing Teslas and other electric vehicles is going to be difficult. The issue is half technical and half marketing.
  - benajnim 12y ago
    The irony in your last point, is that an electric vehicle is objectively far simpler than an internal combustion powered one.
    - gnopgnip 12y ago
      It could be much simpler, but practically speaking, electric vehicles have many more complicated features when compared to affordable ICE vehicles.
  - 12y ago
Igglyboo 12y ago
Exactly this. I'm about to graduate with a BS in Computer Science from Oakland University. We're less than a mile away from Chrysler World HQ. I'd say about 90% of my classmates already are, or are going to, work for one of the Big 3 or Big 3 suppliers. If you explained this situation to most people you met on the street, they would probably be in favor of fucking over Tesla. Cars are pretty much the backbone of the entire economy here in MI. It's getting better, but not fast enough. Apparently what happened to Flint and Detroit wasn't enough of a wakeup call for everyone.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
tjpaxton 12y ago
- I haven't seen one media story about this yet, outside of social media. I also live in michigan and both of the major detroit newspapers had this on the front page early this morning [0][1]. - Tesla isn't a name brand here like Ford or GM. In fact, if you asked a lot of people if we should help the Big Three with this sort of legislation, you might be surprised by the answer. Remember, they generate a LOT of jobs in this state: not just the Big Three, but the tier 2 and tier 3 manufactors. While I think logic would win out in the day, I wouldn't assume that everybody in Michigan _wants_ Tesla. It isn't in their best interest. This is about helping dealerships, not manufacturers so you'd think that any support for the Big Three manufactures wouldn't correlate with support for this bill. [0] - http://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/2014/10/16/tesla-faces-direct-sales-ban-michigan/17359253/ http://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/2014/10/16/t... [1] -http://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/2014/10/17/michigan-verge-banning-tesla-stores/17386251/ http://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/2014/10/17/michigan-ve...
- soperj 12y ago
  Fucking over Tesla = helping the big 3.
UnethicalHacks 12y ago
> Telsa isn't going to get much traction here until they improve cold weather battery performance. are you joking? Toronto has plenty of Teslas and they work just fine.

clarebear 12y ago

My retired father-in-law who lives in a suburb of Detroit got a car that was not manufactured by the by the Big Three a couple years ago. He felt so much social pressure that he quickly returned it and got one that was. He told me that some "foreign" cars would be egged in his neighborhood. I put foreign in quotes, as big three cars are not always manufactured in the US and sometimes other cars are manufactured here. But if you are from Detroit, where the headquarters is and the profits go back to matters most, and tangibly matters.

untothebreach 12y ago
and friend of mine's father drives around Flint, MI in a Honda Civic with the license plate "GMLEFT." Needless to say, he has frequently had to deal with vandalism. The truth hurts.
phurley 12y ago
I live in a Detroit suburb, a large number of the residents here are engineers, many for GM, Ford and Chrysler, but quite a few for Toyota, Hyundai and other foreign suppliers (like Bosch and Yazaki). I see many domestic, but almost as many imports here. I think a lot of the stigma is gone, certainly there is considerable pressure for people to drive their employers vehicle to work, but at least in my (relatively upscale) neighborhood, I would feel no social pressure against, and I bet I would have a bunch of engineers come visit, if I dug up a 100k and put a Tesla in my driveway.
- zenocon 12y ago
  Agree. I worked for one of these three companies for a span. While I was there, they did have a rule that if you're not driving their car, you can't park it in the covered parking lot. That was the extent of the backlash, and I've lived in this area most of my life. I think a lot of these stories and anecdotes about tires getting slashed, and people being harassed for driving foreign are not accurate today.
  - 67726e 12y ago
    I think part of that might be the crowds you hang with. I would expect petty vandalism more from blue collar types than I would engineers and other professional types.
  - imroot 12y ago
    I've been a contractor for one of the Big 3 at one point in the early 2000's. I was given a Kia at Enterprise to drive, and when I came out on my first day, it was encased with no less than 300 pallets and shrinkwrap. Apparently, they forgot to tell me that you shouldn't drive a non-UAW vehicle onto the parking lot. Enterprise's Roadside Assistance guy was not happy with me when he had to help me pull the pallets away so I could get my vehicle out.
- busyant 12y ago
  I agree that there's not a stigma for driving a foreign car around Detroit anymore. Interestingly, my father worked for Chrysler outside of Detroit from the late 1950s into the 1970s. And oddly enough, he drove a VW Beetle in the 1960s. As you can imagine, when things were good, he was just viewed as the eccentric guy who drove a puny foreign car (why would anybody in their right mind do that?). In the 1970s (and 1980s) doing something similar was probably a moderately dangerous move. I've been back many times during my life and in the 1990s and onward, I see plenty of foreign cars.
hueving 12y ago
There is a big difference between the big 3 and dealers. In fact, wiping the requirements for this middlescum would help the big 3 as well.
- mikeash 12y ago
  But does the Average Michigan Joe understand that?
carsonreinke 12y ago
That is a bunch of BS, this is not Detroit of the 70s, that stuff doesn't happen. People drive foreign cars around just like any other area.
- NoPiece 12y ago
  In Michigan, 79% of new cars purchased are Ford, GM, or Chrysler. In California, 22%. http://wot.motortrend.com/patriotic-car-shopping-which-states-buy-detroit-three-the-most-383699.html http://wot.motortrend.com/patriotic-car-shopping-which-state...
  - carsonreinke 12y ago
    Yes, of course there is going to be more, people usually work for those companies and get discounts. Vandalism, aggression, nope.

nathanm412 12y ago

Cold weather performance is trumpeted a lot by EV detractors, but the number one selling new car in Norway last month was the Tesla Model S. http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/08/tesla-norway-idUSL6N0HX1CH20131008 http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/08/tesla-norway-idUSL... Here's an interesting interview from Elon Musk about the Tesla battery winter performance. http://cleantechnica.com/2013/03/01/interview-with-elon-musk-on-tesla-model-s-performance-in-cold-weather/ http://cleantechnica.com/2013/03/01/interview-with-elon-musk...

exDM69 12y ago
I live in a very cold place with weather comparable to Norway. There are lots of problems when it comes to dealing with cars in the winter. I have no doubt that Tesla could be a decent choice for a car, but it makes perfect sense to be a bit wary about electric vehicles manufactured in California sunshine, especially if you don't have a garage to store the car in. In addition to battery life and cabin heating issues, there can be lots of small problems. I'm a bit worried about the fancy electric door handles, for example. I've been locked out of my car because the locks were frozen and sometimes even the doors themselves frozen solid. I have no doubt that Tesla can overcome these issues but they will have to do extensive testing as well as make it known to the public that their car is a reliable vehicle even in wintertime. People up here in the north tend to favor simple and solid cars and marketing Teslas and other electric vehicles is going to be difficult. The issue is half technical and half marketing.
- benajnim 12y ago
  The irony in your last point, is that an electric vehicle is objectively far simpler than an internal combustion powered one.
  - gnopgnip 12y ago
    It could be much simpler, but practically speaking, electric vehicles have many more complicated features when compared to affordable ICE vehicles.
- 12y ago

Igglyboo 12y ago

Exactly this. I'm about to graduate with a BS in Computer Science from Oakland University. We're less than a mile away from Chrysler World HQ. I'd say about 90% of my classmates already are, or are going to, work for one of the Big 3 or Big 3 suppliers. If you explained this situation to most people you met on the street, they would probably be in favor of fucking over Tesla. Cars are pretty much the backbone of the entire economy here in MI. It's getting better, but not fast enough. Apparently what happened to Flint and Detroit wasn't enough of a wakeup call for everyone.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

tjpaxton 12y ago

- I haven't seen one media story about this yet, outside of social media. I also live in michigan and both of the major detroit newspapers had this on the front page early this morning [0][1]. - Tesla isn't a name brand here like Ford or GM. In fact, if you asked a lot of people if we should help the Big Three with this sort of legislation, you might be surprised by the answer. Remember, they generate a LOT of jobs in this state: not just the Big Three, but the tier 2 and tier 3 manufactors. While I think logic would win out in the day, I wouldn't assume that everybody in Michigan _wants_ Tesla. It isn't in their best interest. This is about helping dealerships, not manufacturers so you'd think that any support for the Big Three manufactures wouldn't correlate with support for this bill. [0] - http://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/2014/10/16/tesla-faces-direct-sales-ban-michigan/17359253/ http://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/2014/10/16/t... [1] -http://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/2014/10/17/michigan-verge-banning-tesla-stores/17386251/ http://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/2014/10/17/michigan-ve...

soperj 12y ago
Fucking over Tesla = helping the big 3.

UnethicalHacks 12y ago

> Telsa isn't going to get much traction here until they improve cold weather battery performance. are you joking? Toronto has plenty of Teslas and they work just fine.