5 ms·

Someone here probably knows, but two questions immediately spring to mind. 1) Was there any bowdlerization of the records--any attempt to cover up scandalous l

by IvyMike 12y ago

Someone here probably knows, but two questions immediately spring to mind. 1) Was there any bowdlerization of the records--any attempt to cover up scandalous lineages that are or were at one time against Mormon norms? (For example, interracial relationships prior to 1978) 2) Are they able to handle cyclical family trees, such as described in this famous stack overflow question: http://stackoverflow.com/q/6163683/67591 http://stackoverflow.com/q/6163683/67591

bostik 12y ago
> Are they able to handle cyclical family trees Heh, this reminds me of an assignment in a Finnish university. A second-year programming course requires to build a family tree parser with the appropriate data structure design. The tests are automated: students upload their sources through a web form, the backend builds the code and feeds it a number of test cases. The trick is that the inputs are not provided ahead of time. Once a test set fails, the student is provided with the input(s) that broke their submission. A student can submit their code at most four times, and a failure to pass the tests also means a failed course. One of the inputs is the family tree of the Egyptian Pharaohs.
rmc 12y ago
2) Are they able to handle cyclical family trees, such as described in this famous stack overflow question: http://stackoverflow.com/q/6163683/67591* http://stackoverflow.com/q/6163683/67591* Their current software spec for GEDCOM can't even handle same-sex marriage. GEDCOM is rapidly becoming a poor choice for reflecting current reality.
- spindritf 12y ago
  It's discussed below[1]. AFAIK people of the same sex cannot have a biological descendant of both so it's inconsequential here. A more pertinent complaint is the one you cut out: incest. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8469570 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8469570
  - rmc 12y ago
    (a) Lots of family tree software supports non-biological/genetic decendents, like adoption. Why allow recording of adoption for different sex couples but not same-sex couples? (b) In places with gender recognition law, someone can legally have their new gender recognised, and hence be legally female or male, and be capable of genetically producing children with someone of the same gender.
    - spindritf 12y ago
      I'm guessing they're not big on sex change either.
- tfinniga 12y ago
  Gedcom is pretty much deprecated. The currently supported method is working directly on the common data, either using the web app or using their api.
  - rmc 12y ago
    The GEDCOM file format is one of the main file formats supported by most family tree software.
tfinniga 12y ago
1. They take any information that is submitted, but it's not automatically merged into a single 'correct' version. The system keeps track of the original submissions and what the sources are, including reference information, source images, etc. if they are submitted. You can merge records together into a single individual, but that individual can be split again. As you might expect, there are some family trees where people are constantly fighting over the actual events. It's a bit like wikipedia in that way. 2. Yes, they allow very free-form data in the tree. In previous incarnations they used to try to merge everything together into a single 'true' version of events. Since they now just keep everything, they will try to provide a coherent view of the data, but underneath it's all just individual items of data in a massive database. Previously, the only goal of the mormon church's genealogy efforts was to perform ordinances in biological relationships - biological parents to child, biological parents to each other. That also matched up with the nuclear family structure of the 50s which the church is also in favor of, so the concepts got a bit mixed. I'm not involved in the project, but my guess is that their current goal is to make their system the single clearinghouse for all genealogical data. If everyone is using it, then the mormon church will always have access to all the data it needs for the ordinances. Merging different databases is a massive pain, it's much simpler to record everything in the same place. Other people will only use this system if it's flexible enough to meet their needs, so I think that's why it's more flexible now.
joshdance 12y ago
In answer to 1.) The LDS Church doesn't try to make an 'official' record. They store everything. So people are editing, linking, removing links all the time. The Church just stores it all. As to 2. That is a super interesting question, I have no idea.

by IvyMike 12y ago

bostik 12y ago

> Are they able to handle cyclical family trees Heh, this reminds me of an assignment in a Finnish university. A second-year programming course requires to build a family tree parser with the appropriate data structure design. The tests are automated: students upload their sources through a web form, the backend builds the code and feeds it a number of test cases. The trick is that the inputs are not provided ahead of time. Once a test set fails, the student is provided with the input(s) that broke their submission. A student can submit their code at most four times, and a failure to pass the tests also means a failed course. One of the inputs is the family tree of the Egyptian Pharaohs.

rmc 12y ago

2) Are they able to handle cyclical family trees, such as described in this famous stack overflow question: http://stackoverflow.com/q/6163683/67591* http://stackoverflow.com/q/6163683/67591* Their current software spec for GEDCOM can't even handle same-sex marriage. GEDCOM is rapidly becoming a poor choice for reflecting current reality.

spindritf 12y ago
It's discussed below[1]. AFAIK people of the same sex cannot have a biological descendant of both so it's inconsequential here. A more pertinent complaint is the one you cut out: incest. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8469570 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8469570
- rmc 12y ago
  (a) Lots of family tree software supports non-biological/genetic decendents, like adoption. Why allow recording of adoption for different sex couples but not same-sex couples? (b) In places with gender recognition law, someone can legally have their new gender recognised, and hence be legally female or male, and be capable of genetically producing children with someone of the same gender.
  - spindritf 12y ago
    I'm guessing they're not big on sex change either.
tfinniga 12y ago
Gedcom is pretty much deprecated. The currently supported method is working directly on the common data, either using the web app or using their api.
- rmc 12y ago
  The GEDCOM file format is one of the main file formats supported by most family tree software.

tfinniga 12y ago

1. They take any information that is submitted, but it's not automatically merged into a single 'correct' version. The system keeps track of the original submissions and what the sources are, including reference information, source images, etc. if they are submitted. You can merge records together into a single individual, but that individual can be split again. As you might expect, there are some family trees where people are constantly fighting over the actual events. It's a bit like wikipedia in that way. 2. Yes, they allow very free-form data in the tree. In previous incarnations they used to try to merge everything together into a single 'true' version of events. Since they now just keep everything, they will try to provide a coherent view of the data, but underneath it's all just individual items of data in a massive database. Previously, the only goal of the mormon church's genealogy efforts was to perform ordinances in biological relationships - biological parents to child, biological parents to each other. That also matched up with the nuclear family structure of the 50s which the church is also in favor of, so the concepts got a bit mixed. I'm not involved in the project, but my guess is that their current goal is to make their system the single clearinghouse for all genealogical data. If everyone is using it, then the mormon church will always have access to all the data it needs for the ordinances. Merging different databases is a massive pain, it's much simpler to record everything in the same place. Other people will only use this system if it's flexible enough to meet their needs, so I think that's why it's more flexible now.

joshdance 12y ago

In answer to 1.) The LDS Church doesn't try to make an 'official' record. They store everything. So people are editing, linking, removing links all the time. The Church just stores it all. As to 2. That is a super interesting question, I have no idea.