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I think the real issue is that US customers (at least) have been conditioned to think of a smart phone as something that costs between $0 and $300 due to the co

I think the real issue is that US customers (at least) have been conditioned to think of a smart phone as something that costs between $0 and $300 due to the common use of contracts and subsidies. Even if a carrier offers a non-contract plan, they are often not that much better as far as price (with some exceptions like TMobile and some MVNOs), so they balk at paying $650-850 for a handset. That was one of the things I liked most about the Nexus 5 when it came out. Even unlocked you were getting a current gen phone, unlocked, worked with three major carriers and many MVNOs, and only cost $350. At that point, it's not as tough to make the jump and ditch the contract. Without the contract, you can just leave if a competitor offers a better deal or if your carrier screws you over. Even with this new SIM, I imagine you're still either gonna pay full price or you're gonna get it subsidized with a contract and then have the option of flipping over to some secondary plan when needed. Might be good for smaller carriers with good rates but less coverage. Phone works great at home but drops off when you go to another town? Just flip to a prepaid SIM from a cheap prepaid carrier with service in the area.

Igglyboo 12y ago
Yep, no one is going to want to pay $600+ for a phone(in the US). TBH, over $200 for a phone on contract is really high as well.
- rconti 12y ago
  shrug Just paid $750 for an iPhone 6, unlocked. The alternative was renting it from my carrier for a similar amount, divided into 24 months, and being handcuffed to them for unlocks and the like. By using BYOD pricing on my ATT plan, I pay less every month than I would on a subsidy. Yeah, I'm not everyone, but arguing that "most people" won't do what I did is kind of missing the point-- they already DO pay that much, just not all at once. It's kind of crazier when you realize what people are paying without knowing it. The subsidies are going away -- ATT and Verizon in the US are forcing people into their monthly payment plans -- which is kind of nice, because people actually see what they're paying instead of just seeing it "bundled".
  - lh7777 12y ago
    Same here. I'm on AT&T, but bought an unlocked Verizon iPhone 6. I may not end up switching carriers in the next two years, but it's nice to have the extra flexibility for the same price I'd end up paying if I went with subsidized or Next plans.
    - uptown 12y ago
      How do you go about buying a Verizon iPhone 6 outright? Do you do that at a Verizon store, or can Apple sell that to you?
      - zw 12y ago
        Yeah, they sell off-contract Verizon phones at the fruit store. They're unlocked GSM global phones, pretty sweet. I got one because they were all my store had and immediately popped in my T-Mo SIM.
  - colinbartlett 12y ago
    I've converted at least a dozen friends and family members to this route just by showing them with simple math how much I save. I think it's very slowly catching on how bad a deal it is to rent your phone on contract.
    - sanderjd 12y ago
      Step 2 is converting to phones that don't cost $750! There are some great phones for less than $300 unsubsidized nowadays.
      - TeMPOraL 12y ago
        One thing I learned is that there are things in life you shouldn't be cheap about, and one of them is most definitely a smartphone. You're buying a device you'll be using every day, likely pulling it up for few seconds every little while. You definitely don't want to have a smartphone that looks like crap, hangs up all the time and in the end won't let you do half of the things it was supposed to do. This would be introducing an incredibly big source of frustrations into your daily routine. I wouldn't be surprised if additional psychiatrist bill would be bigger than money saved on the phone. I was stuck for three years with a crapphone (LG P150) that was too weak to lift its own operating system (Android). After those three years of torture (and using it only for calls and text messages, as turning on Internet would max out the processing power and memory and would require taking out the battery) I can say such phones should not be allowed on the market. Especially not pushed by telecoms on contracts. It's especially sad to look at people who get burned by this when buying their first smartphones. It's basically a story of shattered dreams. It's just evil. So folks, either buy a dumbphone (if all you need is text and calls), or shell out for some decent tech. Buy that Nexus or S4. It's worth the money.
- sliverstorm 12y ago
  over $200 for a phone on contract is really high When the value of the phone is $600 and the value of the contract is $2400, $200 is really high.
- monksy 12y ago
  I paid ~$350 for a used S4 that I got activated on PagePlus. Why would I pay $80 a month to a big named carrier who keeps charging me rent on the phone after its paid off? (My plan is $39 for unlimited voice/text+1GB data, I used to do 500mb+1.2k min+3k texts for $29/mo).
  - h4xar 12y ago
    Page Plus is truly amazing, especially now that they support 4G (but 3.5 Mbps throttle) as of a couple weeks ago. I just set someone up with a gently used S3 for ~$140, which if you compare specs to the S4, isn't much of a step down.
    - monksy 12y ago
      When did they get 4g?!
click170 12y ago
You've got a good point there. With the Nexus phones (previous versions at least) you could get them at a reasonable price direct from Google. Most of my friends bought direct from Google. I understand Apple let's you buy a phone direct as well, though they're prices aren't/weren't as reasonable. Hopefully this helps to set the precedent that you can have your cake and eat it too (Have a reasonable phone at a reasonable price).
vegardx 12y ago
The carriers should be required to tell the customer the total price, including the contract. Perhaps then the consumers would know what they are signing up to. And the contract length should be limited, given how volatile and fast moving the market is.
- Shivetya 12y ago
  Verizon told me the full price of my 6 and how that was broken down based on two different plans I could choose. In the end since I had completed and past the end of my contract on the 4s the 6 was free. Pay 200 to get it and get 200 back for returning the 4s. There are some good deals out there but most people don't look for them or worse ignore them. There are people won't do the 4s or such trade in because "its a hassle". Yeah, they mail you mailer and you send it back in postage paid. Oh, fill out a form on the site to start the process. There are people who don't care what the true price is just as there are people who don't want to know; they aren't the same people
  - tbrock 12y ago
    Actually, you aren't aware of the full price of your contract either. The second you get the opportunity to upgrade you should take it and seek to maximize the value of the discount you get. Phone upgrades are like a call option you get every two years but since you had a 4S you let some time slide in between excercing. If you didn't like the 5s the better move would have been to upgrade anyway and immediately sell the phone, possibly saving the money to buy one later or spend it on something else. The longer you wait to upgrade, once you have the ability, the less your upgrade is worth to you as the carrier has already made the discount back (and then some) through your payments. The optimal strategy is to hit it as soon as you get it.
    - sanderjd 12y ago
      This is why I don't like this model. I don't need or want to spend money on a new phone every two years, but if I don't exercise the option, I'm leaving money on the table. I think the optimal strategy is to avoid "buying" the option to begin with, get a cheap unsubsidized plan, get an inexpensive phone, and keep it for three to five years.

Igglyboo 12y ago

Yep, no one is going to want to pay $600+ for a phone(in the US). TBH, over $200 for a phone on contract is really high as well.

rconti 12y ago
shrug Just paid $750 for an iPhone 6, unlocked. The alternative was renting it from my carrier for a similar amount, divided into 24 months, and being handcuffed to them for unlocks and the like. By using BYOD pricing on my ATT plan, I pay less every month than I would on a subsidy. Yeah, I'm not everyone, but arguing that "most people" won't do what I did is kind of missing the point-- they already DO pay that much, just not all at once. It's kind of crazier when you realize what people are paying without knowing it. The subsidies are going away -- ATT and Verizon in the US are forcing people into their monthly payment plans -- which is kind of nice, because people actually see what they're paying instead of just seeing it "bundled".
- lh7777 12y ago
  Same here. I'm on AT&T, but bought an unlocked Verizon iPhone 6. I may not end up switching carriers in the next two years, but it's nice to have the extra flexibility for the same price I'd end up paying if I went with subsidized or Next plans.
  - uptown 12y ago
    How do you go about buying a Verizon iPhone 6 outright? Do you do that at a Verizon store, or can Apple sell that to you?
    - zw 12y ago
      Yeah, they sell off-contract Verizon phones at the fruit store. They're unlocked GSM global phones, pretty sweet. I got one because they were all my store had and immediately popped in my T-Mo SIM.
- colinbartlett 12y ago
  I've converted at least a dozen friends and family members to this route just by showing them with simple math how much I save. I think it's very slowly catching on how bad a deal it is to rent your phone on contract.
  - sanderjd 12y ago
    Step 2 is converting to phones that don't cost $750! There are some great phones for less than $300 unsubsidized nowadays.
    - TeMPOraL 12y ago
      One thing I learned is that there are things in life you shouldn't be cheap about, and one of them is most definitely a smartphone. You're buying a device you'll be using every day, likely pulling it up for few seconds every little while. You definitely don't want to have a smartphone that looks like crap, hangs up all the time and in the end won't let you do half of the things it was supposed to do. This would be introducing an incredibly big source of frustrations into your daily routine. I wouldn't be surprised if additional psychiatrist bill would be bigger than money saved on the phone. I was stuck for three years with a crapphone (LG P150) that was too weak to lift its own operating system (Android). After those three years of torture (and using it only for calls and text messages, as turning on Internet would max out the processing power and memory and would require taking out the battery) I can say such phones should not be allowed on the market. Especially not pushed by telecoms on contracts. It's especially sad to look at people who get burned by this when buying their first smartphones. It's basically a story of shattered dreams. It's just evil. So folks, either buy a dumbphone (if all you need is text and calls), or shell out for some decent tech. Buy that Nexus or S4. It's worth the money.
sliverstorm 12y ago
over $200 for a phone on contract is really high When the value of the phone is $600 and the value of the contract is $2400, $200 is really high.
monksy 12y ago
I paid ~$350 for a used S4 that I got activated on PagePlus. Why would I pay $80 a month to a big named carrier who keeps charging me rent on the phone after its paid off? (My plan is $39 for unlimited voice/text+1GB data, I used to do 500mb+1.2k min+3k texts for $29/mo).
- h4xar 12y ago
  Page Plus is truly amazing, especially now that they support 4G (but 3.5 Mbps throttle) as of a couple weeks ago. I just set someone up with a gently used S3 for ~$140, which if you compare specs to the S4, isn't much of a step down.
  - monksy 12y ago
    When did they get 4g?!

click170 12y ago

You've got a good point there. With the Nexus phones (previous versions at least) you could get them at a reasonable price direct from Google. Most of my friends bought direct from Google. I understand Apple let's you buy a phone direct as well, though they're prices aren't/weren't as reasonable. Hopefully this helps to set the precedent that you can have your cake and eat it too (Have a reasonable phone at a reasonable price).

vegardx 12y ago

The carriers should be required to tell the customer the total price, including the contract. Perhaps then the consumers would know what they are signing up to. And the contract length should be limited, given how volatile and fast moving the market is.

Shivetya 12y ago
Verizon told me the full price of my 6 and how that was broken down based on two different plans I could choose. In the end since I had completed and past the end of my contract on the 4s the 6 was free. Pay 200 to get it and get 200 back for returning the 4s. There are some good deals out there but most people don't look for them or worse ignore them. There are people won't do the 4s or such trade in because "its a hassle". Yeah, they mail you mailer and you send it back in postage paid. Oh, fill out a form on the site to start the process. There are people who don't care what the true price is just as there are people who don't want to know; they aren't the same people
- tbrock 12y ago
  Actually, you aren't aware of the full price of your contract either. The second you get the opportunity to upgrade you should take it and seek to maximize the value of the discount you get. Phone upgrades are like a call option you get every two years but since you had a 4S you let some time slide in between excercing. If you didn't like the 5s the better move would have been to upgrade anyway and immediately sell the phone, possibly saving the money to buy one later or spend it on something else. The longer you wait to upgrade, once you have the ability, the less your upgrade is worth to you as the carrier has already made the discount back (and then some) through your payments. The optimal strategy is to hit it as soon as you get it.
  - sanderjd 12y ago
    This is why I don't like this model. I don't need or want to spend money on a new phone every two years, but if I don't exercise the option, I'm leaving money on the table. I think the optimal strategy is to avoid "buying" the option to begin with, get a cheap unsubsidized plan, get an inexpensive phone, and keep it for three to five years.