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None of these reiews answer the one question I always want answered; will this cause my MBP to crash more often than 10.8.5? I have all the features I need, I w

None of these reiews answer the one question I always want answered; will this cause my MBP to crash more often than 10.8.5? I have all the features I need, I want fewer GPU panics. I know these reviewers cannot answer this question, I just want to point out that it's the only relevant question for me. Given Apple's track record, this release will most likely cause my MBP to crash more often, but I want data on that. I want a review to actually explore this angle as opposed to simply talking about features that honestly mean nothing to me.

scj 12y ago
How often does your MBP crash?
- radicalbyte 12y ago
  I'm not the OP, but my (new) MBP crashes twice a month when surfing or coding (Sublime, Typescript, Node). It crashes daily if I use Parallels and regularly when using Spotify.
  - WoodenChair 12y ago
    That's highly unusual. You should ask yourself what peripherals/kernel extensions/weird software you have installed that maybe contributing to this. And I would definitely bring it in to Apple for service if the answer is "none."
  - Watabou 12y ago
    That's not normal at all. Try and run a hardware diagnostic test, or try and see if you can find the logs in Console.app
  - x0x0 12y ago
    anything show up in kextstat | grep -iv apple
  - seany 12y ago
    I had an issue similar to this that was related to a hardware problem with the GPU. I took it into the apple store and they ended up replacing the logic board.
  - grecy 12y ago
    I would take it back. My previous MBP went ~2 years of very heavy use without a single crash, and my 2012 MBA has only crashed once, right after I installed google hangout stuff.
  - Kluny 12y ago
    For what it's worth, I've seen Sublime mentioned in relation to crashes a couple times now.
    - mahmud 12y ago
      That does not excuse it. A text editor should not take down an OS.
    - JonnieCache 12y ago
      That's just because people here are using it 8 hours a day.
  - X-Istence 12y ago
    These days I use VMWare, but I've got co-workers with Parallels installed and all day everyday they have random kernel panics and crashes. Uninstall Parallels and most likely all of that stuff will go away...
- guilhermetk 12y ago
  I don't ever remember the last time my MB Air crashed. I run Mavericks (10.9.5) + Windows 7 (parallels) edit: Mid 2012 Air, 2GHz i7, 8GB ram
pbreit 12y ago
Doubt you're going to see much about crashing since I presume that most MBP owners, like myself, never experience crashes.
- gcao 12y ago
  Mine crashes a lot. Usually after I send it to sleep when I go home. Next time when I wake it up, it starts up from crashed state. It might have something to do with some app I installed but I didn't spend time to figure that out yet.
  - Heliosmaster 12y ago
    You're not alone in this exact behavior.
  - segmondy 12y ago
    Don't blame the app, blame the OS, the OS is suppose to insulate the app, it's not MSDOS, unless of course it runs as root then all bets are off.
    - epochwolf 12y ago
      VMWare installs kernel extentions. I'm pretty sure you can blame an app that deliberately messes with the OS internals.
  - rconti 12y ago
    I went through a few of these. At least once the GPU burned up when it failed to go to sleep after disconnecting from my thunderbolt display and putting in my laptop bag for 18h. I think I went through two MBPr 15" machines before I got one that didn't have the problem. I still think it's possible some software I had was triggering it initially, but once it happened a few times, even a clean install with nothing on it could trigger it. Was very frustrating.
  - r00fus 12y ago
    VMWare 6 seems to be the cause of some of mine. I resolved it by making sure it's suspended prior to system sleep. I wonder if the most recent VMWare version would help.
nodata 12y ago
You should be getting zero crashes before your upgrade. How many crashes are you seeing? What are you doing near the crash?
zomgbbq 12y ago
I was experiencing the GPU panics as well and it turned out to be a hardware issue. Did it only happen when you were using the NVidia GPU and not when using the on-board?
- kissickas 12y ago
  I have this issue (MBP early 2011). Is it risky to upgrade to Yosemite? When starting up cold, I sometimes have to force-shutdown the computer 30+ times before it will get past the Apple logo screen without going grey or black. I'm not sure if such a major software update is a good idea given the circumstances.
  - melling 12y ago
    I had a GPU hardware problem too. When in I upgraded a few years ago to a beta at wwdc, it became quite unstable. Finally got Apple to replace the motherboard. Not sure why an upgrade would cause the problem, though.
  - nrinaudo 12y ago
    I had this problem, went to the genius bar and was quickly offered to replace the defective component for free in under a week, if I remember correctly. It's still much too long to go without a computer, but it's worth it when you realise you've been coding for three hours and haven't lost a single line of code to a crash. That being said, before I got the part replaced, upgrading to... was it snow leopard? the latest version of OS X, anyway, increased the frequency of the issue by rather a lot. So, possibly, hold off on your update?
    - kissickas 12y ago
      Thanks for the anecdotal evidence. Were you covered by Apple Care or just got lucky?
      - nrinaudo 12y ago
        A little bit of both: my warrantee had long expired, but there was an extension for this very specific issue, since I believe it affects 100% of macbook pros from that series. I've looked into this a bit more and it looks like my comment is entirely unhelpful: mine is a mid-2010 MBP, so while our issues look similar, they probably are not. Sorry about that, I should have checked before.
teamhappy 12y ago
Anybody know where to find release dates for driver updates and things like that?
BSousa 12y ago
MBP retina 1st generation. Latest GM is better than 10.9 (don't really remember 10.8 crashes though) regarding crashes. Initial betas were bad (2-3 reboots a day) now latest GM seed seems quite stable. Haven't rebooted in days (except to update the OS)
song 12y ago
Yes, I've never had OS X crash as often as Mavericks. And some of the crashes are completely repeatable. For example, open a lot of windows (20 terminal windows, 5-6 projects in Sublime, a bunch of browser windows used to test apps), turn on mission control and it just crashes every single time. I haven't done more test to figure the exact number of windows until it crashes but I know that it does for my workflow. Admittedly, I tend to have more windows opened than most people, but then again that's what I have 16GB for. I've also noticed that while expose was always smooth, mission control just doesn't work for me. If it doesn't crash it's dog slow, especially if it switches from integrated GPU to dedicated GPU just when I open it.
- epmatsw 12y ago
  If it's that reproducible, it would probably be good to file a bug report with Apple.
- mentat 12y ago
  There are and have been real GPU HW bugs that this could be triggering. I just had my main logic board replaced twice due to these with a similar trigger.
- FraaJad 12y ago
  20 terminal windows? Is there any reason you are not using screen/tmux?
  - girvo 12y ago
    Eh, why bother when iTerm2 gives me the same splitting and tab features :)
    - zachrose 12y ago
      I used to have the same question, but having a remote tmux session that persists forever has turned out to be awesome.
      - 12y ago
ronyeh 12y ago
I use gfxCardStatus ( https://gfx.io/ https://gfx.io/ ) to avoid the GPU panics. I have to set my MBP to use the integrated Intel graphics and avoid using my nVidia discrete GPU. Yes, it would be nice if my OS didn't cause GPU panics (even if it's actually a bug with the GPU).
bitL 12y ago
I started experiencing GPU panics on rMBP in the past week as well, I guess NVidia or related circuits have some issues. I switched it off using gfxcardstatus and now it's stable running on Intel HD only. Try to do the same - if it stops crashing, your discrete GPU might be damaged.
- amirmansour 12y ago
  I had the same issue with my mid-2010 MBP. They actually had a recall, but I was late to it! I'm somewhat disappointed that this issue still persists in some later models. gfxcardstatus helped a little in my situation, but the problem got so bad that I literally could not used the computer. $3K down the drain :(
- mattgreenrocks 12y ago
  Me too. I suspect Chrome to be involved, if only because they had this problem back in 2012 as well, around the time the rMBP came out.
  - junkblocker 12y ago
    I noticed Chrome crashing whenever I was in the Chrome store too many time. The 'graphics error happened' message after the crash was another clue. So I turned off native graphics acceleration in Chrome's setting and it's not crashed since then.
    - mattgreenrocks 12y ago
      Yeah, I hate posting "I think it's such and such" without looking at logs, but realistically, very few apps are trying to be their own OS.
terhechte 12y ago
Around two months ago, I switched from running 10.8.5 on my main machine to running the 10.10 betas full time and I've not had a single panic. (Late 2012 iMac 27"). However, If I were you I'd still wait for 10.10.1 though, just to be on the safe side.
prawn 12y ago
I have been using the Yosemite beta and it has been pretty horrible. Constant visual glitches in Photoshop CS6, crashes with display glitches in Sublime Text and really long pauses anytime I try to save a simple document for the first time. e.g., save a new 100KB JPG in Photoshop? 1 min or more. Save a 100MB+ PSD that's already been saved? Instant. Would've happily avoided the beta but the only way to screen record directly from an iOS device and the Apple-recommended way to create preview videos for the app store involved Yosemite and iOS8.
- subdane 12y ago
  iOS8 has made my 4S nearly unusable. Wish I had waited to install it.
  - gurkendoktor 12y ago
    At least iOS 8 has fixed a few critical security issues (which is doubly important if you use 2FA anywhere, or iCloud Keychain Sync). 10.9 will still receive a few years worth of security fixes.
- benbreen 12y ago
  n=1 of course, but I've been using the beta on a 2013 Macbook Pro for a couple months now with no problems besides Safari crashing more often than usual. No issues with Photoshop and performance generally seems better than Mavericks.
  - qqz 12y ago
    Same here, on a 2012 Air. Performance is great but I've noticed a couple Safari crashes/freezes. Finder crashed once I think. Also had trouble with Dark Mode+Reduce Transparency, but those are just beta issues and since GM1 the only issue has been the weird black corners of the volume popup.
    - alantinard 12y ago
      I wish they would support even older hardware, my 2008 mac mini is just crying for an update.
mrottenkolber 12y ago
Every time I am intrigued by Apple's UI design I get taken back to reality by threads like these. Thank you. FYI, there are OS distributions that do not crash. My sound card sometimes doesn't survive a hibernation but that's a known hardware fault. Not that a OS level crash would lead to any data loss.
- acdha 12y ago
  > FYI, there are OS distributions that do not crash. Yes, I have heard that LepriconSoft's UnicornOS runs quite well on the Hypothetica-9000 processor but everything else has the same real-world problems with faulty hardware and drivers. You might have a stable setup but that's also true of well over 99% of Mac users – they just also don't tend to go on forums and say “Yeap, everything's still fine here!”.
  - guardian5x 12y ago
    Serious Question: I know that since Vista, Windows can handle graphics driver and sound card driver crashes by restarting the driver.[1] That often leads to the program to crash too, if its using 3d graphics for example, but it does not require a restart of the whole system. Does Mac OS have something similar too? [1] http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/images/device/wddm_timeout.gif http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/images/device/wddm_timeout.gif
    - acdha 12y ago
      I don't believe so but since neither has crashed for me in years I haven't looked into it. You definitely can restart Bluetooth, which I've needed to do a handful of times when playing audio.
    - feld 12y ago
      I'm from the Unix world. What is a "driver crash" ?
  - smt88 12y ago
    I'd say LepriconSoft's UnicornOS is actually Windows 8.1, as strange/infuriating as that's going to sound to many HN readers. I used Xubuntu or Fedora (dev), Windows 7 (Office), and OS X (XCode) for hours every day for years. I had two self-built machines running Linux, a laptop and a self-built machine running Win 7, and OS X running on a Mac Mini and later a MBA. Since then, I've also had another desktop and a laptop running Win 7 and Win 8 (though enough coworkers use GDocs now that I've stopped using Windows at all). Both Linux distros and all OS X versions (from Snow Leopard to Mavericks) have crashed countless times on me. How much they crashed has varied a lot between setups. Windows hasn't crashed for me (or any of my friends or relatives for whom I'm their IT guy) since Vista came out. It's also never crashed on my old Mac Mini, which is my HTPC setup now. Whatever you think about the finished products or companies behind them, it's really just a matter of testing and incentives. Windows 8 was tested for 1.2 billion hours before it was released, for example. Microsoft can do things slowly, but when they release something, it has to be rock-solid for their enterprise customers. OS X, for Apple, isn't a moneymaker and its stability/security obviously isn't much of a priority. They didn't even give it a significant design refresh in years. That's how little they care about it. The latest version of Ubuntu's desktop edition will ship with at least one head-slapping, show-stopping bug, even though it has a company backing it.
newbeginnings9 12y ago
u r so hi tech
Cymen 12y ago
The only way I can keep my MBP retina happy when using it with an external Thunderbolt display is: 1) before plugging into display, open lid and wait for login screen to appear 2) before unplugging display, open lid and wait for laptop screen to turn on (normally I keep my laptop closed when connected to the display) If I deviate from this the laptop crashes or goes into some odd state.
- ChikkaChiChi 12y ago
  I've had this same problem on more than one Macbook at work.
- atonse 12y ago
  I do EXACTLY this to avoid my laptop acting weird when I take it home/bring it to work.
dzhiurgis 12y ago
It's humiliating to admit, but my rMBP crashes so much more often than cheapest Dell desktop with Windows 7 at work. Actually I doubt that it ever crashed. Some of the issues were resolved by removing Soundflower as it was conflicting with VLC. But they still do happen.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
bbulkow 12y ago
I have a mid-2012 rMBP. I had terrible crashing problems - twice a day. Worse than any PC I ever had. I had to take it in. And pay $550. Even though it's clearly a common problem, if not a design problem, something similar. Go check out the big apple support log on the problem. I lost two weeks of productivity, because they failed to fix it the first time (it got worse). If you have GPU panics, and you don't get your hardware fixed, you get what you deserve. Sorry for that. It's hard to get to a repair center or genius place? Sorry for that too. Nothing to do with 10.10. I've installed 10.10. It's running nicely. What should you expect? Look through Ars' list. The changes are updates to the on-board apps - none of which I use (message center? no. Mail? no. etc). There are additional internal APIs for IOS tooling - good for the long term, nothing for now. Mavericks was an important release. It treats multiple screens in a sensible way - finally addressing a weakness inherent in macs since '85. There has always been the Special Screen with real estate taken by the menu bar, no matter how many screens you have, you drag the cursor back to that screen over and over. 10.10 is not Mavericks. In 10.10, you'll see some newer, cleaner fonts and icons, that's it.
- loumf 12y ago
  I was crashing multiple times a day with GPU stacks in the crash log while viewing or editing video. It turned out to be memory with incompatible speed -- swapped out, no crashes since.
- jeremymcanally 12y ago
  Pay $550? Why? Apple will do any repair for like $399 (or at least they used to) so long as you didn't mind it being sent out. I guess maybe that answers my question if you needed it back immediately. :) For future reference, if they botched it the first time, you should call Apple corporate and yell. They messed something up in a repair for my work laptop once and it took one phone call to get a new one immediately. I had to make it clear that it was their fault and I had to have it for work and school, but they were super accommodating (and the new one worked like a charm).
- hnriot 12y ago
  you probably put bad memory in it. That's the usual reason. You need to read the specs carefully when buying cheap RAM
circa 12y ago
I installed it on my iMac 27" from 2009. It does not boot now and goes into a panic. I haven't had much time to mess with it but there are no other partitions and it just does not load. Its also weird because I have no media now. I have the discs it came with somewhere but that will also be Lion 10.7? Or possibly Snow Leopard. The re-install is going to be a bitch for me. UGH!
- pja 12y ago
  If you have a friend with a Mac they ought to be able to make you a bootable USB stick which you can use to install the OS - there are instructions online for Mavericks & I's guess that you can do the same thing with Yosemite.
jcfrei 12y ago
It's ridiculous how many people report crashes in this thread; my friends have issues with every update of OSX, because every time MATLAB stops working. At this point I wonder how any developer can consider OSX a serious platform for anything else than XCode.

scj 12y ago

How often does your MBP crash?

radicalbyte 12y ago
I'm not the OP, but my (new) MBP crashes twice a month when surfing or coding (Sublime, Typescript, Node). It crashes daily if I use Parallels and regularly when using Spotify.
- WoodenChair 12y ago
  That's highly unusual. You should ask yourself what peripherals/kernel extensions/weird software you have installed that maybe contributing to this. And I would definitely bring it in to Apple for service if the answer is "none."
- Watabou 12y ago
  That's not normal at all. Try and run a hardware diagnostic test, or try and see if you can find the logs in Console.app
- x0x0 12y ago
  anything show up in kextstat | grep -iv apple
- seany 12y ago
  I had an issue similar to this that was related to a hardware problem with the GPU. I took it into the apple store and they ended up replacing the logic board.
- grecy 12y ago
  I would take it back. My previous MBP went ~2 years of very heavy use without a single crash, and my 2012 MBA has only crashed once, right after I installed google hangout stuff.
- Kluny 12y ago
  For what it's worth, I've seen Sublime mentioned in relation to crashes a couple times now.
  - mahmud 12y ago
    That does not excuse it. A text editor should not take down an OS.
  - JonnieCache 12y ago
    That's just because people here are using it 8 hours a day.
- X-Istence 12y ago
  These days I use VMWare, but I've got co-workers with Parallels installed and all day everyday they have random kernel panics and crashes. Uninstall Parallels and most likely all of that stuff will go away...
guilhermetk 12y ago
I don't ever remember the last time my MB Air crashed. I run Mavericks (10.9.5) + Windows 7 (parallels) edit: Mid 2012 Air, 2GHz i7, 8GB ram

pbreit 12y ago

Doubt you're going to see much about crashing since I presume that most MBP owners, like myself, never experience crashes.

gcao 12y ago
Mine crashes a lot. Usually after I send it to sleep when I go home. Next time when I wake it up, it starts up from crashed state. It might have something to do with some app I installed but I didn't spend time to figure that out yet.
- Heliosmaster 12y ago
  You're not alone in this exact behavior.
- segmondy 12y ago
  Don't blame the app, blame the OS, the OS is suppose to insulate the app, it's not MSDOS, unless of course it runs as root then all bets are off.
  - epochwolf 12y ago
    VMWare installs kernel extentions. I'm pretty sure you can blame an app that deliberately messes with the OS internals.
- rconti 12y ago
  I went through a few of these. At least once the GPU burned up when it failed to go to sleep after disconnecting from my thunderbolt display and putting in my laptop bag for 18h. I think I went through two MBPr 15" machines before I got one that didn't have the problem. I still think it's possible some software I had was triggering it initially, but once it happened a few times, even a clean install with nothing on it could trigger it. Was very frustrating.
- r00fus 12y ago
  VMWare 6 seems to be the cause of some of mine. I resolved it by making sure it's suspended prior to system sleep. I wonder if the most recent VMWare version would help.

nodata 12y ago

You should be getting zero crashes before your upgrade. How many crashes are you seeing? What are you doing near the crash?

zomgbbq 12y ago

I was experiencing the GPU panics as well and it turned out to be a hardware issue. Did it only happen when you were using the NVidia GPU and not when using the on-board?

kissickas 12y ago
I have this issue (MBP early 2011). Is it risky to upgrade to Yosemite? When starting up cold, I sometimes have to force-shutdown the computer 30+ times before it will get past the Apple logo screen without going grey or black. I'm not sure if such a major software update is a good idea given the circumstances.
- melling 12y ago
  I had a GPU hardware problem too. When in I upgraded a few years ago to a beta at wwdc, it became quite unstable. Finally got Apple to replace the motherboard. Not sure why an upgrade would cause the problem, though.
- nrinaudo 12y ago
  I had this problem, went to the genius bar and was quickly offered to replace the defective component for free in under a week, if I remember correctly. It's still much too long to go without a computer, but it's worth it when you realise you've been coding for three hours and haven't lost a single line of code to a crash. That being said, before I got the part replaced, upgrading to... was it snow leopard? the latest version of OS X, anyway, increased the frequency of the issue by rather a lot. So, possibly, hold off on your update?
  - kissickas 12y ago
    Thanks for the anecdotal evidence. Were you covered by Apple Care or just got lucky?
    - nrinaudo 12y ago
      A little bit of both: my warrantee had long expired, but there was an extension for this very specific issue, since I believe it affects 100% of macbook pros from that series. I've looked into this a bit more and it looks like my comment is entirely unhelpful: mine is a mid-2010 MBP, so while our issues look similar, they probably are not. Sorry about that, I should have checked before.

teamhappy 12y ago

Anybody know where to find release dates for driver updates and things like that?

BSousa 12y ago

MBP retina 1st generation. Latest GM is better than 10.9 (don't really remember 10.8 crashes though) regarding crashes. Initial betas were bad (2-3 reboots a day) now latest GM seed seems quite stable. Haven't rebooted in days (except to update the OS)

song 12y ago

Yes, I've never had OS X crash as often as Mavericks. And some of the crashes are completely repeatable. For example, open a lot of windows (20 terminal windows, 5-6 projects in Sublime, a bunch of browser windows used to test apps), turn on mission control and it just crashes every single time. I haven't done more test to figure the exact number of windows until it crashes but I know that it does for my workflow. Admittedly, I tend to have more windows opened than most people, but then again that's what I have 16GB for. I've also noticed that while expose was always smooth, mission control just doesn't work for me. If it doesn't crash it's dog slow, especially if it switches from integrated GPU to dedicated GPU just when I open it.

epmatsw 12y ago
If it's that reproducible, it would probably be good to file a bug report with Apple.
mentat 12y ago
There are and have been real GPU HW bugs that this could be triggering. I just had my main logic board replaced twice due to these with a similar trigger.
FraaJad 12y ago
20 terminal windows? Is there any reason you are not using screen/tmux?
- girvo 12y ago
  Eh, why bother when iTerm2 gives me the same splitting and tab features :)
  - zachrose 12y ago
    I used to have the same question, but having a remote tmux session that persists forever has turned out to be awesome.
    - 12y ago

ronyeh 12y ago

I use gfxCardStatus ( https://gfx.io/ https://gfx.io/ ) to avoid the GPU panics. I have to set my MBP to use the integrated Intel graphics and avoid using my nVidia discrete GPU. Yes, it would be nice if my OS didn't cause GPU panics (even if it's actually a bug with the GPU).

bitL 12y ago

I started experiencing GPU panics on rMBP in the past week as well, I guess NVidia or related circuits have some issues. I switched it off using gfxcardstatus and now it's stable running on Intel HD only. Try to do the same - if it stops crashing, your discrete GPU might be damaged.

amirmansour 12y ago
I had the same issue with my mid-2010 MBP. They actually had a recall, but I was late to it! I'm somewhat disappointed that this issue still persists in some later models. gfxcardstatus helped a little in my situation, but the problem got so bad that I literally could not used the computer. $3K down the drain :(
mattgreenrocks 12y ago
Me too. I suspect Chrome to be involved, if only because they had this problem back in 2012 as well, around the time the rMBP came out.
- junkblocker 12y ago
  I noticed Chrome crashing whenever I was in the Chrome store too many time. The 'graphics error happened' message after the crash was another clue. So I turned off native graphics acceleration in Chrome's setting and it's not crashed since then.
  - mattgreenrocks 12y ago
    Yeah, I hate posting "I think it's such and such" without looking at logs, but realistically, very few apps are trying to be their own OS.

terhechte 12y ago

Around two months ago, I switched from running 10.8.5 on my main machine to running the 10.10 betas full time and I've not had a single panic. (Late 2012 iMac 27"). However, If I were you I'd still wait for 10.10.1 though, just to be on the safe side.

prawn 12y ago

I have been using the Yosemite beta and it has been pretty horrible. Constant visual glitches in Photoshop CS6, crashes with display glitches in Sublime Text and really long pauses anytime I try to save a simple document for the first time. e.g., save a new 100KB JPG in Photoshop? 1 min or more. Save a 100MB+ PSD that's already been saved? Instant. Would've happily avoided the beta but the only way to screen record directly from an iOS device and the Apple-recommended way to create preview videos for the app store involved Yosemite and iOS8.

subdane 12y ago
iOS8 has made my 4S nearly unusable. Wish I had waited to install it.
- gurkendoktor 12y ago
  At least iOS 8 has fixed a few critical security issues (which is doubly important if you use 2FA anywhere, or iCloud Keychain Sync). 10.9 will still receive a few years worth of security fixes.
benbreen 12y ago
n=1 of course, but I've been using the beta on a 2013 Macbook Pro for a couple months now with no problems besides Safari crashing more often than usual. No issues with Photoshop and performance generally seems better than Mavericks.
- qqz 12y ago
  Same here, on a 2012 Air. Performance is great but I've noticed a couple Safari crashes/freezes. Finder crashed once I think. Also had trouble with Dark Mode+Reduce Transparency, but those are just beta issues and since GM1 the only issue has been the weird black corners of the volume popup.
  - alantinard 12y ago
    I wish they would support even older hardware, my 2008 mac mini is just crying for an update.

mrottenkolber 12y ago

Every time I am intrigued by Apple's UI design I get taken back to reality by threads like these. Thank you. FYI, there are OS distributions that do not crash. My sound card sometimes doesn't survive a hibernation but that's a known hardware fault. Not that a OS level crash would lead to any data loss.

acdha 12y ago
> FYI, there are OS distributions that do not crash. Yes, I have heard that LepriconSoft's UnicornOS runs quite well on the Hypothetica-9000 processor but everything else has the same real-world problems with faulty hardware and drivers. You might have a stable setup but that's also true of well over 99% of Mac users – they just also don't tend to go on forums and say “Yeap, everything's still fine here!”.
- guardian5x 12y ago
  Serious Question: I know that since Vista, Windows can handle graphics driver and sound card driver crashes by restarting the driver.[1] That often leads to the program to crash too, if its using 3d graphics for example, but it does not require a restart of the whole system. Does Mac OS have something similar too? [1] http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/images/device/wddm_timeout.gif http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/images/device/wddm_timeout.gif
  - acdha 12y ago
    I don't believe so but since neither has crashed for me in years I haven't looked into it. You definitely can restart Bluetooth, which I've needed to do a handful of times when playing audio.
  - feld 12y ago
    I'm from the Unix world. What is a "driver crash" ?
- smt88 12y ago
  I'd say LepriconSoft's UnicornOS is actually Windows 8.1, as strange/infuriating as that's going to sound to many HN readers. I used Xubuntu or Fedora (dev), Windows 7 (Office), and OS X (XCode) for hours every day for years. I had two self-built machines running Linux, a laptop and a self-built machine running Win 7, and OS X running on a Mac Mini and later a MBA. Since then, I've also had another desktop and a laptop running Win 7 and Win 8 (though enough coworkers use GDocs now that I've stopped using Windows at all). Both Linux distros and all OS X versions (from Snow Leopard to Mavericks) have crashed countless times on me. How much they crashed has varied a lot between setups. Windows hasn't crashed for me (or any of my friends or relatives for whom I'm their IT guy) since Vista came out. It's also never crashed on my old Mac Mini, which is my HTPC setup now. Whatever you think about the finished products or companies behind them, it's really just a matter of testing and incentives. Windows 8 was tested for 1.2 billion hours before it was released, for example. Microsoft can do things slowly, but when they release something, it has to be rock-solid for their enterprise customers. OS X, for Apple, isn't a moneymaker and its stability/security obviously isn't much of a priority. They didn't even give it a significant design refresh in years. That's how little they care about it. The latest version of Ubuntu's desktop edition will ship with at least one head-slapping, show-stopping bug, even though it has a company backing it.

newbeginnings9 12y ago

u r so hi tech

Cymen 12y ago

The only way I can keep my MBP retina happy when using it with an external Thunderbolt display is: 1) before plugging into display, open lid and wait for login screen to appear 2) before unplugging display, open lid and wait for laptop screen to turn on (normally I keep my laptop closed when connected to the display) If I deviate from this the laptop crashes or goes into some odd state.

ChikkaChiChi 12y ago
I've had this same problem on more than one Macbook at work.
atonse 12y ago
I do EXACTLY this to avoid my laptop acting weird when I take it home/bring it to work.

dzhiurgis 12y ago

It's humiliating to admit, but my rMBP crashes so much more often than cheapest Dell desktop with Windows 7 at work. Actually I doubt that it ever crashed. Some of the issues were resolved by removing Soundflower as it was conflicting with VLC. But they still do happen.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

bbulkow 12y ago

I have a mid-2012 rMBP. I had terrible crashing problems - twice a day. Worse than any PC I ever had. I had to take it in. And pay $550. Even though it's clearly a common problem, if not a design problem, something similar. Go check out the big apple support log on the problem. I lost two weeks of productivity, because they failed to fix it the first time (it got worse). If you have GPU panics, and you don't get your hardware fixed, you get what you deserve. Sorry for that. It's hard to get to a repair center or genius place? Sorry for that too. Nothing to do with 10.10. I've installed 10.10. It's running nicely. What should you expect? Look through Ars' list. The changes are updates to the on-board apps - none of which I use (message center? no. Mail? no. etc). There are additional internal APIs for IOS tooling - good for the long term, nothing for now. Mavericks was an important release. It treats multiple screens in a sensible way - finally addressing a weakness inherent in macs since '85. There has always been the Special Screen with real estate taken by the menu bar, no matter how many screens you have, you drag the cursor back to that screen over and over. 10.10 is not Mavericks. In 10.10, you'll see some newer, cleaner fonts and icons, that's it.

loumf 12y ago
I was crashing multiple times a day with GPU stacks in the crash log while viewing or editing video. It turned out to be memory with incompatible speed -- swapped out, no crashes since.
jeremymcanally 12y ago
Pay $550? Why? Apple will do any repair for like $399 (or at least they used to) so long as you didn't mind it being sent out. I guess maybe that answers my question if you needed it back immediately. :) For future reference, if they botched it the first time, you should call Apple corporate and yell. They messed something up in a repair for my work laptop once and it took one phone call to get a new one immediately. I had to make it clear that it was their fault and I had to have it for work and school, but they were super accommodating (and the new one worked like a charm).
hnriot 12y ago
you probably put bad memory in it. That's the usual reason. You need to read the specs carefully when buying cheap RAM

circa 12y ago

I installed it on my iMac 27" from 2009. It does not boot now and goes into a panic. I haven't had much time to mess with it but there are no other partitions and it just does not load. Its also weird because I have no media now. I have the discs it came with somewhere but that will also be Lion 10.7? Or possibly Snow Leopard. The re-install is going to be a bitch for me. UGH!

pja 12y ago
If you have a friend with a Mac they ought to be able to make you a bootable USB stick which you can use to install the OS - there are instructions online for Mavericks & I's guess that you can do the same thing with Yosemite.

jcfrei 12y ago

It's ridiculous how many people report crashes in this thread; my friends have issues with every update of OSX, because every time MATLAB stops working. At this point I wonder how any developer can consider OSX a serious platform for anything else than XCode.