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It's just a different mentality towards life and entitlement- there's nothing sad about it. Hitting all your points in order: 1) 1 million dollars is a lot of

It's just a different mentality towards life and entitlement- there's nothing sad about it. Hitting all your points in order: 1) 1 million dollars is a lot of money to come out of nowhere. It's simply dishonest to pretend that isn't a life changing amount for a middle class family. At the very least it's going to be like you said- modest home paid off(100-500k), car loans all paid off(50k), and student loans paid off(300k if your kids went to expensive schools and you have 3 of them). I'm really not seeing why anyone should be entitled to never work again simply because their parents made a lot of money. (With that said, my parents didn't choose to bury themselves in debt and could have retired instantly if they received this inheritance when combined with the investments they already had) 2) It's absolutely a lottery. Trying to cloud this issue with "oh well the parents potentially weren't there as much and that emotional cost is easily worth a few million" is disingenuous. It makes the assumption that money has no influence on the quality of the child's upbringing and "time spent with kids/day" is the only metric worth mentioning. 3) Being taxed when you're dead isn't a tax to me. At all. I understand this is a personal opinion but you should have the same understanding regarding your own opinion here. When I'm dead I no longer feel entitled to anything I gained in my lifetime- it's not like I'm ever going to use it again. I also don't feel my kids are entitled to it just because they happened to be born (effectively via lottery) to me. To suffice: Let the fruit of my efforts benefit society/humanity as a whole. It was my goal in life and ought to be in death.

JoeAltmaier 12y ago
That's Polyanna thinking, that an estate tax will benefit humanity. What nation do you live in? You trust the govt to spend your wealth, more than say a relative? I don't believe it. And 'wealth' isn't all gold buried in the back yard. Its also investments in businesses (either stocks or directly) as a corporation or even a proprietorship. Who runs the restaurant after you die? The government? Preposterous.
- Omniusaspirer 12y ago
  You're assuming the estate tax needs to exist in it's current form- ideally it would allow for me to deign money out to specific aspects of government or approved (need to avoid abuse here) charities of my choice. That would still serve to dissuade the multigenerational family/genetic lottery while leaving the individual with some say in how their (now former) assets are used. On your last point- a traditional corporation won't fail if one person dies as the issue of ownership is inherently divested from any individual person. Stocks are one of the easiest assets to liquidate on this planet- I'm not seeing an issue there. The restaurant? It would be sold. If I have a family member who I actually think could run it adequately they would be able to purchase it like anybody else and I would encourage them to do so while I was still alive.
  - JoeAltmaier 12y ago
    Ooooor... just give it to them before you die. Likewise the stocks. Likewise the 'approved' charities - the Charity Of Bob's Kids would be ideal I think. More Polyanna thinking that anything you can make up in a minute, won't be gamed to death by anybody and everybody. Why? Because almost everybody wants to increase the chances of their children/heirs succeeding. Its built into the species.
    - Omniusaspirer 12y ago
      Now you're just being deliberately obtuse. The entire reason I explicitly pointed out the potential for abuse was to head off the "Charity of Bob's Kids" comment. Obviously such a system would need significant safeguards- this is something we're both fully aware of as intelligent human beings. Mentioning them now is just a strawman unless stated as the overall opinion "it's 100% impossible to stop abuse". On your last point, I find it silly to assert that a belief in humanities ability to overrule animal instincts is somehow "Pollyanna thinking". Everything we've achieved thus far as a species has been based on that belief.
      - JoeAltmaier 12y ago
        Ok maybe that was too far. But everything in the tax law is a testament to how this is playing out in reality. Try as you might, 10,000 lawyers will push their pointy noses through loopholes to benefit their clients, which is everybody.
    - loumf 12y ago
      You can't avoid the estate tax by gifts given before you die [1]. They are added into the estate. [1] http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employed/Estate-Tax http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employ...
- loumf 12y ago
  A restaurant would very unlikely be hit by estate tax. For one, it's the VALUE of the restaurant, not the revenue. What do you think the value of a restaurant typically is (especially a family one like you describe) -- probably less than 500k -- certainly no more than a million [1]. Restaurants are a fine way of distributing income to a family who work there, but the value is based on profit after that. You could own 5 restaurants of that size and not pay estate tax. [1] http://sellingrestaurants.com/news/how-much-is-a-restaurant-worth.html http://sellingrestaurants.com/news/how-much-is-a-restaurant-...
- eli_gottlieb 12y ago
  >That's Polyanna thinking, that an estate tax will benefit humanity. Just because something is idealistic doesn't mean it's incorrect. > You trust the govt to spend your wealth, more than say a relative? Dear God yes.
moggflunkies 12y ago
1)Your entire logical chain is premised off the fact that people don't make communal sacrifice in the generation of wealth. You pretend that only individual actors generate wealth. Imagine a family running a small business or rental properties or whatever you can dream up, children are often employed and exert effort in overall progression of the business. Albeit some more than others, its not your place to demand that their efforts go unrecognized. 2) You can expand that mindset to indiviuals with healthy genes. It's an absolute lottery as to who will have a strong heart, full head of hair, great stature. Why not manage those factors too some day? 3) Your mindset will change with age and if your children grow to become functional members of society. You will desire to offer them an even greater opportunity to make a meaningful impact than you did or could. Your mindset is that of a baby-boomer. I am wondering if you are one? > Let the fruit of my efforts benefit society/humanity as a whole. It was my goal in life and ought to be in death. And why do you get to decide how that is done? Why not offer up all of your wealth to be managed on your behalf in the most fair and equitable method?
kamaal 12y ago
>>I'm really not seeing why anyone should be entitled to never work again simply because their parents made a lot of money. Because, their parents earned it. People slog their bones off, make a lot of sacrifices and after a life time of work get to such a position. If some body's parents doesn't want to leave a inheritance, or don't to earn or whatever. I would leave that at calling it as their personal decision. >>It's absolutely a lottery. Its really strange to see the way you like to put it like absolutely no real effort was involved in building that wealth at all.
- Omniusaspirer 12y ago
  You answered your own second statement. Their PARENTS earned it. Not the kids. That's my entire point- I don't think children should be entitled to assets their parents "slogged their bones off for" simply because they won the lottery of being born with those parents. You disagree and that's fine, I was merely presenting the other side of this debate (and the one I personally sit on the side of).
  - kamaal 12y ago
    Investments work by building on top of something you earned in the past and so on. If there is no incentive to get rich, or benefit by making money over a long term for you or your descendants the very motivation to contribute something valuable and make money along the way, goes away. So after a time you will be left wondering why a few capable people aren't sacrificing their lives making up for every body else. Welcome to Soviet Russia!
  - shawn-butler 12y ago
    Actually some endeavors are a multi-generational effort. Specifically consider the case of farming / ranching. Many development projects are unprofitable over the course of a single lifetime. Large estate taxation schemes always need to carve out exceptions for ag and then the loophole-thread pulling begins.
johnm111888 12y ago
Property rights are the basis of human freedom. All these comments supporting the government taking your property after you've already paid taxes on it is troubling.

JoeAltmaier 12y ago

That's Polyanna thinking, that an estate tax will benefit humanity. What nation do you live in? You trust the govt to spend your wealth, more than say a relative? I don't believe it. And 'wealth' isn't all gold buried in the back yard. Its also investments in businesses (either stocks or directly) as a corporation or even a proprietorship. Who runs the restaurant after you die? The government? Preposterous.

Omniusaspirer 12y ago
You're assuming the estate tax needs to exist in it's current form- ideally it would allow for me to deign money out to specific aspects of government or approved (need to avoid abuse here) charities of my choice. That would still serve to dissuade the multigenerational family/genetic lottery while leaving the individual with some say in how their (now former) assets are used. On your last point- a traditional corporation won't fail if one person dies as the issue of ownership is inherently divested from any individual person. Stocks are one of the easiest assets to liquidate on this planet- I'm not seeing an issue there. The restaurant? It would be sold. If I have a family member who I actually think could run it adequately they would be able to purchase it like anybody else and I would encourage them to do so while I was still alive.
- JoeAltmaier 12y ago
  Ooooor... just give it to them before you die. Likewise the stocks. Likewise the 'approved' charities - the Charity Of Bob's Kids would be ideal I think. More Polyanna thinking that anything you can make up in a minute, won't be gamed to death by anybody and everybody. Why? Because almost everybody wants to increase the chances of their children/heirs succeeding. Its built into the species.
  - Omniusaspirer 12y ago
    Now you're just being deliberately obtuse. The entire reason I explicitly pointed out the potential for abuse was to head off the "Charity of Bob's Kids" comment. Obviously such a system would need significant safeguards- this is something we're both fully aware of as intelligent human beings. Mentioning them now is just a strawman unless stated as the overall opinion "it's 100% impossible to stop abuse". On your last point, I find it silly to assert that a belief in humanities ability to overrule animal instincts is somehow "Pollyanna thinking". Everything we've achieved thus far as a species has been based on that belief.
    - JoeAltmaier 12y ago
      Ok maybe that was too far. But everything in the tax law is a testament to how this is playing out in reality. Try as you might, 10,000 lawyers will push their pointy noses through loopholes to benefit their clients, which is everybody.
  - loumf 12y ago
    You can't avoid the estate tax by gifts given before you die [1]. They are added into the estate. [1] http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employed/Estate-Tax http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employ...
loumf 12y ago
A restaurant would very unlikely be hit by estate tax. For one, it's the VALUE of the restaurant, not the revenue. What do you think the value of a restaurant typically is (especially a family one like you describe) -- probably less than 500k -- certainly no more than a million [1]. Restaurants are a fine way of distributing income to a family who work there, but the value is based on profit after that. You could own 5 restaurants of that size and not pay estate tax. [1] http://sellingrestaurants.com/news/how-much-is-a-restaurant-worth.html http://sellingrestaurants.com/news/how-much-is-a-restaurant-...
eli_gottlieb 12y ago
>That's Polyanna thinking, that an estate tax will benefit humanity. Just because something is idealistic doesn't mean it's incorrect. > You trust the govt to spend your wealth, more than say a relative? Dear God yes.

moggflunkies 12y ago

1)Your entire logical chain is premised off the fact that people don't make communal sacrifice in the generation of wealth. You pretend that only individual actors generate wealth. Imagine a family running a small business or rental properties or whatever you can dream up, children are often employed and exert effort in overall progression of the business. Albeit some more than others, its not your place to demand that their efforts go unrecognized. 2) You can expand that mindset to indiviuals with healthy genes. It's an absolute lottery as to who will have a strong heart, full head of hair, great stature. Why not manage those factors too some day? 3) Your mindset will change with age and if your children grow to become functional members of society. You will desire to offer them an even greater opportunity to make a meaningful impact than you did or could. Your mindset is that of a baby-boomer. I am wondering if you are one? > Let the fruit of my efforts benefit society/humanity as a whole. It was my goal in life and ought to be in death. And why do you get to decide how that is done? Why not offer up all of your wealth to be managed on your behalf in the most fair and equitable method?

kamaal 12y ago

>>I'm really not seeing why anyone should be entitled to never work again simply because their parents made a lot of money. Because, their parents earned it. People slog their bones off, make a lot of sacrifices and after a life time of work get to such a position. If some body's parents doesn't want to leave a inheritance, or don't to earn or whatever. I would leave that at calling it as their personal decision. >>It's absolutely a lottery. Its really strange to see the way you like to put it like absolutely no real effort was involved in building that wealth at all.

Omniusaspirer 12y ago
You answered your own second statement. Their PARENTS earned it. Not the kids. That's my entire point- I don't think children should be entitled to assets their parents "slogged their bones off for" simply because they won the lottery of being born with those parents. You disagree and that's fine, I was merely presenting the other side of this debate (and the one I personally sit on the side of).
- kamaal 12y ago
  Investments work by building on top of something you earned in the past and so on. If there is no incentive to get rich, or benefit by making money over a long term for you or your descendants the very motivation to contribute something valuable and make money along the way, goes away. So after a time you will be left wondering why a few capable people aren't sacrificing their lives making up for every body else. Welcome to Soviet Russia!
- shawn-butler 12y ago
  Actually some endeavors are a multi-generational effort. Specifically consider the case of farming / ranching. Many development projects are unprofitable over the course of a single lifetime. Large estate taxation schemes always need to carve out exceptions for ag and then the loophole-thread pulling begins.

johnm111888 12y ago

Property rights are the basis of human freedom. All these comments supporting the government taking your property after you've already paid taxes on it is troubling.