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It's been known since antiquity that sometimes geniuses sire idiots. The hyperfocus on genetics as the source of IQ is probably wrong. Let's remember that we

It's been known since antiquity that sometimes geniuses sire idiots. The hyperfocus on genetics as the source of IQ is probably wrong. Let's remember that we are well educated apes and if not for the education we would still be looking at sticks and flint without realizing their combined value.

csallen 12y ago
There's a very large gap between your first two sentences, especially since it's quite common for there to be large variations in intelligence among people raised/educated in similar environments.
- Beltiras 12y ago
  I'm not maintaining there is no genetic effect. I see plenty of indicators around me pointing both ways. I think it's a mix of things. I wished someone would have pointed out Plato's writing to me when I was a kid. It would have accelerated my intellectual development tremendously.
- mo1ok 12y ago
  At the same time, there's a tendency for people of similar environments to have higher intelligence of people in other environments (the achievement gap).
jsilence 12y ago
See also: Flynn Effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect
- Beltiras 12y ago
  That was super interesting! Thanks. The most interesting part to me is that it might be coming to an end!
lhnz 12y ago
>> The hyperfocus on genetics as the source of IQ is probably wrong. Substantiate this please because just the other day I read "We know from many decades of research in behavioral genetics that about half of the variation across people in IQ is due to genes." [0] A lot of people want to believe that genetics doesn't play a big part in differentiation between human abilities but as science is not supporting that viewpoint it might be a good time to begin re-educating people on the limits of education. [0] http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2014/09/malcolm_gladwell_s_10_000_hour_rule_for_deliberate_practice_is_wrong_genes.single.html http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/201...
- Shinkei 12y ago
  Among twin-twin studies of the effects of nature/nuture, I recall mathematical ability as being the most highly heritable at something like 50%. Even eye color is not that high, and so it seems to be true that intelligence (at least in maths) is very heritable.
  - bhouston 12y ago
    > I recall mathematical ability as being the most highly heritable at something like 50%. Even eye color is not that high Actually, heritability of eye color is 98%. A somewhat complete listing of heritability according to SNPedia (which doesn't include intelligence): http://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Heritability http://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Heritability
    - cariaso 12y ago
      http://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Eye_color http://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Eye_color does have extremely high heritability, but the mechanism is more complex than what we were usually mistaught in schools, which I think is the origin of Shinkei's comment. http://snpedia.com/index.php/Intelligence http://snpedia.com/index.php/Intelligence is not being well captured by GWAS. All current associations are probably false positives. I've not seen any evidence specific to mathematical ability.
Rapzid 12y ago
This is... Not true. We HAVE attempted to educate apes after all...
- Beltiras 12y ago
  I did not mean that literally. Of course there are differences between apes and us. It's not a lot thou and the distinction between the species is not so old either.

csallen 12y ago

There's a very large gap between your first two sentences, especially since it's quite common for there to be large variations in intelligence among people raised/educated in similar environments.

Beltiras 12y ago
I'm not maintaining there is no genetic effect. I see plenty of indicators around me pointing both ways. I think it's a mix of things. I wished someone would have pointed out Plato's writing to me when I was a kid. It would have accelerated my intellectual development tremendously.
mo1ok 12y ago
At the same time, there's a tendency for people of similar environments to have higher intelligence of people in other environments (the achievement gap).

jsilence 12y ago

See also: Flynn Effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect

Beltiras 12y ago
That was super interesting! Thanks. The most interesting part to me is that it might be coming to an end!

lhnz 12y ago

>> The hyperfocus on genetics as the source of IQ is probably wrong. Substantiate this please because just the other day I read "We know from many decades of research in behavioral genetics that about half of the variation across people in IQ is due to genes." [0] A lot of people want to believe that genetics doesn't play a big part in differentiation between human abilities but as science is not supporting that viewpoint it might be a good time to begin re-educating people on the limits of education. [0] http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2014/09/malcolm_gladwell_s_10_000_hour_rule_for_deliberate_practice_is_wrong_genes.single.html http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/201...

Shinkei 12y ago
Among twin-twin studies of the effects of nature/nuture, I recall mathematical ability as being the most highly heritable at something like 50%. Even eye color is not that high, and so it seems to be true that intelligence (at least in maths) is very heritable.
- bhouston 12y ago
  > I recall mathematical ability as being the most highly heritable at something like 50%. Even eye color is not that high Actually, heritability of eye color is 98%. A somewhat complete listing of heritability according to SNPedia (which doesn't include intelligence): http://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Heritability http://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Heritability
  - cariaso 12y ago
    http://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Eye_color http://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Eye_color does have extremely high heritability, but the mechanism is more complex than what we were usually mistaught in schools, which I think is the origin of Shinkei's comment. http://snpedia.com/index.php/Intelligence http://snpedia.com/index.php/Intelligence is not being well captured by GWAS. All current associations are probably false positives. I've not seen any evidence specific to mathematical ability.

Rapzid 12y ago

This is... Not true. We HAVE attempted to educate apes after all...

Beltiras 12y ago
I did not mean that literally. Of course there are differences between apes and us. It's not a lot thou and the distinction between the species is not so old either.