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what does "vote manipulated" even mean exactly? Isn't the point of a voting system to enable stories that many people value to be more visible? In this case,

what does "vote manipulated" even mean exactly? Isn't the point of a voting system to enable stories that many people value to be more visible? In this case, it is not "manipulation" unless their accounts were hacked? Asking for agreement is not manipulation.

dang 12y ago
Soliciting upvotes is against the rules and is the definition of a voting ring (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html). The idea of HN is that users vote for things they find intellectually interesting, not because they or someone they like are promoting something. If we didn't have such a rule, as well as software to enforce it, HN would be overrun by gaming of the voting system. Dozens of posts try to do so every day. That said, we routinely override the ring detector when the post is good original work, which this obviously is. But we don't do that more than once per project. The trouble here is that from an HN front page point of view, these are all effectively the same story: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8460670 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8460670 (the current post) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8308320 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8308320 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8263611 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8263611 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8259528 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8259528 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8238823 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8238823 Of course, to someone immersed in hard work on a big project, those are all very different milestones, each worthy of a post. But from an HN point of view, this project has appeared on the front page a lot lately. At least two of those posts got significant attention within the last couple months. That's a lot—already more than pretty much anyone else gets. So I don't see how we can justify overriding the ring detector in the present case without being unfair to everyone else to whom these rules apply. (It goes without saying that none of the above is meant to impugn the quality of the book, which I don't doubt deserves the enthusiasm of its fans.) Edit: We restored the post because mhartl explained in an email that he didn't know the rules, and I believe him. I'll leave the above comment in the hope that it makes things clearer for everybody, or at least somebody.
- logicallee 12y ago
  For what it's worth, Daniel, as a simple reader I also considered them very different milestones. I remember reading through the announcement of the draft, and thinking I would take another look when the final version is announced, due to the level of enthusiasm shown. I think a lot of people make a strong distinction between draft (or MVP) and launch, etc. This kind of continuity is good for every news cycle of any length, including HN's. :) People like seeing updates. In cases such as this one where it is so helpful to so many people building a business, occasional updates are warranted. There are countless stories in here of people who have bootstrapped businesses using this very book, and mhartl is an extremely responsive and responsible person and member of the community. He answered some of my detailed questions last time around in an email, and I appreciate seeing the update about the launch on the front page now.
  - tptacek 12y ago
    Nobody's saying the story isn't worth posting. The issue is solicitation of upvotes on Twitter.

dang 12y ago

Soliciting upvotes is against the rules and is the definition of a voting ring (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html). The idea of HN is that users vote for things they find intellectually interesting, not because they or someone they like are promoting something. If we didn't have such a rule, as well as software to enforce it, HN would be overrun by gaming of the voting system. Dozens of posts try to do so every day. That said, we routinely override the ring detector when the post is good original work, which this obviously is. But we don't do that more than once per project. The trouble here is that from an HN front page point of view, these are all effectively the same story: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8460670 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8460670 (the current post) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8308320 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8308320 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8263611 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8263611 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8259528 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8259528 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8238823 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8238823 Of course, to someone immersed in hard work on a big project, those are all very different milestones, each worthy of a post. But from an HN point of view, this project has appeared on the front page a lot lately. At least two of those posts got significant attention within the last couple months. That's a lot—already more than pretty much anyone else gets. So I don't see how we can justify overriding the ring detector in the present case without being unfair to everyone else to whom these rules apply. (It goes without saying that none of the above is meant to impugn the quality of the book, which I don't doubt deserves the enthusiasm of its fans.) Edit: We restored the post because mhartl explained in an email that he didn't know the rules, and I believe him. I'll leave the above comment in the hope that it makes things clearer for everybody, or at least somebody.

logicallee 12y ago
For what it's worth, Daniel, as a simple reader I also considered them very different milestones. I remember reading through the announcement of the draft, and thinking I would take another look when the final version is announced, due to the level of enthusiasm shown. I think a lot of people make a strong distinction between draft (or MVP) and launch, etc. This kind of continuity is good for every news cycle of any length, including HN's. :) People like seeing updates. In cases such as this one where it is so helpful to so many people building a business, occasional updates are warranted. There are countless stories in here of people who have bootstrapped businesses using this very book, and mhartl is an extremely responsive and responsible person and member of the community. He answered some of my detailed questions last time around in an email, and I appreciate seeing the update about the launch on the front page now.
- tptacek 12y ago
  Nobody's saying the story isn't worth posting. The issue is solicitation of upvotes on Twitter.