5 ms·

Yep; it was not the massacre threat but the refusal to deny concealed carry that prompted Anita to cancel her event. The title implies a wrong causality like th

by kmfrk 12y ago

Yep; it was not the massacre threat but the refusal to deny concealed carry that prompted Anita to cancel her event. The title implies a wrong causality like that. I can't imagine attending an event where people could carry concealed weapon, even as completely average dude.

JoeAltmaier 12y ago
I'm guessing you don't know many folks who carry? Off-duty police, former military, parents and plumbers. Not a lot to fear. In fact lots of cases its been shown to be safer to have such folks around.
- scarmig 12y ago
  Neither a gun nut or gun grabber, but do you have a cite for that?
  - comrh 12y ago
    You're going to be hard pressed to get a real citation for the safety thing. The issue is just so complex you can't have a 1 to 1 relationship between concealed carry and crime rates. Some states release CCP numbers though and they're plenty of people doing it.
    - hotgoldminer 12y ago
      Any documented instance of concealed carry preventing a crime? Strictly using my imagination, I see far more opportunity for escalation of and accidental violence than for prevention.
      - Fear-The-N8V 12y ago
        There are plenty. People aren't evil by default. Give them more credit. http://www.ijreview.com/2014/03/125342-armed-man-gathers-people-together-dollar-general-breakroom-concealed-carry-holder-saves/ http://www.ijreview.com/2014/03/125342-armed-man-gathers-peo... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqkqzsIjujI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqkqzsIjujI http://bearingarms.com/concealed-carry-permit-holder-stops-shooting-rampage-in-portland/ http://bearingarms.com/concealed-carry-permit-holder-stops-s...
        RubyPinch 12y ago
        @ the last link: I don't think that would fit into the case of "preventing a crime", the guy shot 3 people then started leaving, before he got shot
        hga 12y ago
        That makes the proposition largely unfalsifiable. That is---and this is a very minimal report---we can't know if someone who momentarily stopped shooting would continue. However, continuing to extrapolate from this report, neither police (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_v._Garner http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_v._Garner) nor civilians are allowed to use lethal force on someone who's ceased threatening and is simply fleeing. If a case cannot be made that the threat was still there, guy who shot him should have been charged.
      - flycaliguy 12y ago
        What would anecdotal examples reveal? Seems more likely to confuse the question.
      - tedunangst 12y ago
        Going all the way back to yesterday.... http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/harrisburg_politics/Two-lawmakers-involved-in-shoot-out-with-robbers-near-Capitol.html http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/harrisburg_politics/Two-l... > Confronted by a gunman just blocks from the state Capitol on Tuesday night, a Democratic legislator from Northeastern Pennsylvania pulled his own weapon and traded fire with a would-be robber. Remaining question is to look up the legislator own voting record on the issue of gun control.
- dalore 12y ago
  Safer only because the criminals also have guns. But not actually safer at all. I'd rather the UK where people don't carry. Much safer there. Just look at the number of gun deaths in the UK vs the US.
  - JoeAltmaier 12y ago
    SO what replaces "gun deaths" in the UK? Bullying, physical violence? To call it 'safer' you'd have to talk about actual public safety, not just cherry-pick one stat.
    - x0x0 12y ago
      Yes, a stat like people being shot and dying. 8.8k firearm related homicides in 2012. Plus 20k firearm-related suicides in 2010, the last year I can conveniently find numbers. Your post may seriously be the stupidest thing I've ever read in my life.
      - JoeAltmaier 12y ago
        There were 70,000+ cases of violent crime in the UK in 2014. Which of those replace the so-called gun crimes? Without knowing that, you've got nothing to compare to.
Crito 12y ago
> I can't imagine attending an event where people could carry concealed weapon Have you ever been to America? If so, you have almost certainly already attended countless events where somebody in the audience had a gun. The staggering majority of the time there are no incidents, so it is easy to overlook this.
- comrh 12y ago
  Really, really depends on the state. If from a May-Issue state there is a good chance the only interaction a person gets with someone carrying is the police.
  - Crito 12y ago
    I'd say that even in NYC, you're probably around (illegal, in that case) concealed weapons more often than you would suspect. In most of the country, you will frequently be around many (legally) concealed weapons though. The trick is concealed. The general public, even in cities in red-states, typically only sees guns when a policeman is carrying it. Open carry protesters provide exceptions to this, but most people are not particularly interested in open carry.
- drivingmenuts 12y ago
  "Gun Owner Openly Carries Gun To Little League Game Without Incident" doesn't make for nearly as sensational a headline as "Thirty-Seven Massacred At Redbox Dropoff" and newspapers exist to tell us about sensational events. I won't deny that there are responsible gun owners, but they're not a problem. The problem is that any nutjob can carry a gun and by the time he or she has demonstrated working knowledge of a safety and trigger, it's too late. Even the nutjobs we know are nutjobs are allowed to carry. And yes, there are people who carry as a condition of their job, even when they're not on the job. But they are somewhat answerable to some authority other than their own recognizance. If someone can figure out how to spot the difference between an armed, responsible individual and an armed, irresponsible nutjob, that person will make a fortune.
  - hga 12y ago
Istof 12y ago
you probably did attend such event, but the weapons were concealed
jMyles 12y ago
In what country do you live? In the US, I assume that 10-15% of adults are carrying a handgun wherever I go, and I feel perfectly safe with it. In some states, like New Hampshire, I think it's probably more like 1/3.
- kmfrk 12y ago
  I live in Europe, so I'm a pearl-clutching sort of guy. :)
  - jMyles 12y ago
    If you come to USA, I strongly suggest attending this festival: http://porcfest.com/ http://porcfest.com/ It's full of the warmest, most incredible energy. Lots of people hacking on incredible projects outside in the sun or under gazebos. Awesome local food. And lots and lots of guns.
- forthefuture 12y ago
  This is much more of a state thing than a country thing. I've never seen a gun in real life (except holstered on a cop), living in New Jersey and New York.

by kmfrk 12y ago

JoeAltmaier 12y ago

I'm guessing you don't know many folks who carry? Off-duty police, former military, parents and plumbers. Not a lot to fear. In fact lots of cases its been shown to be safer to have such folks around.

scarmig 12y ago
Neither a gun nut or gun grabber, but do you have a cite for that?
- comrh 12y ago
  You're going to be hard pressed to get a real citation for the safety thing. The issue is just so complex you can't have a 1 to 1 relationship between concealed carry and crime rates. Some states release CCP numbers though and they're plenty of people doing it.
  - hotgoldminer 12y ago
    Any documented instance of concealed carry preventing a crime? Strictly using my imagination, I see far more opportunity for escalation of and accidental violence than for prevention.
    - Fear-The-N8V 12y ago
      There are plenty. People aren't evil by default. Give them more credit. http://www.ijreview.com/2014/03/125342-armed-man-gathers-people-together-dollar-general-breakroom-concealed-carry-holder-saves/ http://www.ijreview.com/2014/03/125342-armed-man-gathers-peo... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqkqzsIjujI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqkqzsIjujI http://bearingarms.com/concealed-carry-permit-holder-stops-shooting-rampage-in-portland/ http://bearingarms.com/concealed-carry-permit-holder-stops-s...
      - RubyPinch 12y ago
        @ the last link: I don't think that would fit into the case of "preventing a crime", the guy shot 3 people then started leaving, before he got shot
        hga 12y ago
        That makes the proposition largely unfalsifiable. That is---and this is a very minimal report---we can't know if someone who momentarily stopped shooting would continue. However, continuing to extrapolate from this report, neither police (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_v._Garner http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_v._Garner) nor civilians are allowed to use lethal force on someone who's ceased threatening and is simply fleeing. If a case cannot be made that the threat was still there, guy who shot him should have been charged.
    - flycaliguy 12y ago
      What would anecdotal examples reveal? Seems more likely to confuse the question.
    - tedunangst 12y ago
      Going all the way back to yesterday.... http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/harrisburg_politics/Two-lawmakers-involved-in-shoot-out-with-robbers-near-Capitol.html http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/harrisburg_politics/Two-l... > Confronted by a gunman just blocks from the state Capitol on Tuesday night, a Democratic legislator from Northeastern Pennsylvania pulled his own weapon and traded fire with a would-be robber. Remaining question is to look up the legislator own voting record on the issue of gun control.
dalore 12y ago
Safer only because the criminals also have guns. But not actually safer at all. I'd rather the UK where people don't carry. Much safer there. Just look at the number of gun deaths in the UK vs the US.
- JoeAltmaier 12y ago
  SO what replaces "gun deaths" in the UK? Bullying, physical violence? To call it 'safer' you'd have to talk about actual public safety, not just cherry-pick one stat.
  - x0x0 12y ago
    Yes, a stat like people being shot and dying. 8.8k firearm related homicides in 2012. Plus 20k firearm-related suicides in 2010, the last year I can conveniently find numbers. Your post may seriously be the stupidest thing I've ever read in my life.
    - JoeAltmaier 12y ago
      There were 70,000+ cases of violent crime in the UK in 2014. Which of those replace the so-called gun crimes? Without knowing that, you've got nothing to compare to.

Crito 12y ago

> I can't imagine attending an event where people could carry concealed weapon Have you ever been to America? If so, you have almost certainly already attended countless events where somebody in the audience had a gun. The staggering majority of the time there are no incidents, so it is easy to overlook this.

comrh 12y ago
Really, really depends on the state. If from a May-Issue state there is a good chance the only interaction a person gets with someone carrying is the police.
- Crito 12y ago
  I'd say that even in NYC, you're probably around (illegal, in that case) concealed weapons more often than you would suspect. In most of the country, you will frequently be around many (legally) concealed weapons though. The trick is concealed. The general public, even in cities in red-states, typically only sees guns when a policeman is carrying it. Open carry protesters provide exceptions to this, but most people are not particularly interested in open carry.
drivingmenuts 12y ago
"Gun Owner Openly Carries Gun To Little League Game Without Incident" doesn't make for nearly as sensational a headline as "Thirty-Seven Massacred At Redbox Dropoff" and newspapers exist to tell us about sensational events. I won't deny that there are responsible gun owners, but they're not a problem. The problem is that any nutjob can carry a gun and by the time he or she has demonstrated working knowledge of a safety and trigger, it's too late. Even the nutjobs we know are nutjobs are allowed to carry. And yes, there are people who carry as a condition of their job, even when they're not on the job. But they are somewhat answerable to some authority other than their own recognizance. If someone can figure out how to spot the difference between an armed, responsible individual and an armed, irresponsible nutjob, that person will make a fortune.
- hga 12y ago

Istof 12y ago

you probably did attend such event, but the weapons were concealed

jMyles 12y ago

In what country do you live? In the US, I assume that 10-15% of adults are carrying a handgun wherever I go, and I feel perfectly safe with it. In some states, like New Hampshire, I think it's probably more like 1/3.

kmfrk 12y ago
I live in Europe, so I'm a pearl-clutching sort of guy. :)
- jMyles 12y ago
  If you come to USA, I strongly suggest attending this festival: http://porcfest.com/ http://porcfest.com/ It's full of the warmest, most incredible energy. Lots of people hacking on incredible projects outside in the sun or under gazebos. Awesome local food. And lots and lots of guns.
forthefuture 12y ago
This is much more of a state thing than a country thing. I've never seen a gun in real life (except holstered on a cop), living in New Jersey and New York.