8 ms·

I don't understand these people that hate her so much, even if you disagree with her. All she has done is create a series of videos pointing out what she thinks

by vlunkr 12y ago

I don't understand these people that hate her so much, even if you disagree with her. All she has done is create a series of videos pointing out what she thinks is wrong with the gaming industry and she gets death threats. Why is no one allowed to be critical of video games? If anything, they are just proving her point by responding with violence.

Rubix117 12y ago
Cause the death threats are so real...
- ben0x539 12y ago
  A death threat doesn't become less real by not being followed through it, otherwise it'd be called murder, not death threat.
  - Rubix117 12y ago
    I mean I very doubt they are real, she has been shown time and again to be a liar.
    - _wdh 12y ago
      Do you have a source or owt for that? You can't just drop something like that without any evidence.
    - ben0x539 12y ago
      This is a shitty gamergate meme and has no basis in reality. The evil "women in gaming" conspiracy would have to be very, very well organized to fabricate the amount of false flag abuse they're constantly subjecting themselves to just on twitter.
  - seanflyon 12y ago
    The implication (dubious as it is) is that the threats were made by people on her side in order to garner sympathy. I think that would make the threats "not real", if it were the case.
- vlunkr 12y ago
  Even if they aren't real at all, how is that an appropriate response?
  - Rubix117 12y ago
    Because lying about death threats causes more problems. I honestly can't believe people take this woman so seriously. As I have commented before she has been shown to be a liar. Nothing she says has any credibility.
    - nrinaudo 12y ago
      I'm sorry, I've been following this story for a while and every single one of the instances where she has been accused of lying that I know of has been debunked. I'm not calling you a liar, merely asking for you to point me to what I've been missing. I run in circles that are pretty pro-sarkeesian and may have suffered from selection bias. Do note, however, that simply stating that she's a liar is not an actual proof of anything. I'm asking for actual articles from reputable outlets, not quotes from Guest11743 on 4chan.
      - Karunamon 12y ago
        Maybe less direct lying and more by omission, but the one I always think of is but one of her videos points out a few supposedly misogynistic portions in the Hitman series of games - while forgetting to mention that the game penalizes you for doing what she's complaining about. There are other instances of this kind of failure to research - see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwwFx-tz9TY&feature=share https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwwFx-tz9TY&feature=share, starting at about 5:33.
        nrinaudo 12y ago
        Right, I see where we misunderstood each other. You're talking about conclusions she reached that are debatable - and, indeed, debated rather a lot. I also disagree with some of them, but don't feel that qualifies her as a liar, just someone with whom I don't agree on everything. Possibly even someone that sometimes uses hyperbole to make her points. I'm most likely guilty of the same sin myself and don't begrudge her this stylistic shortcut. I was talking about, for example, accusations that: - she made the threats up - she was the author of some of the threats - she never actually did report the threats to the police These lies have either been debunked (the police report was produced, for example) or "proved" by nothing stronger than "it stands to reason", which I read as "there is no proof and never will be". We do not necessarily disagree on your points, just on whether that makes her a liar. Facts tend to show that, on average, she's much less of a liar than the people who attack her.
- DanBC 12y ago
  Do you doubt that she has received death threats? Do you doubt that other women recieve death threats?
iamdave 12y ago
>Why is no one allowed to be critical of video games? There's a lot of vitriol going back and forth by both sides of this latest iteration of the 'Battle of the Sexes'. I think abstracting back, a lot of very good points are being brought up that need to be discussed (lots of bad ones too, in the interest of intellectual honesty). It's not until you get a bit more granular that ugly heads start to rear up and we ultimately end up with this. We're at an unfortunate point right now that dissent is a tacit admission of complicity with the various social ills that people like Sarkesian are trying to explicate on a large scale at best, and treated as an existential threat to 'progress' at worst. No, that's not an indictment of the entire movement of feminism, but it's also not hard to find for anyone who goes and looks for it. I used to care about this, a lot. Now? I prefer to just sit back and let both sides of screaming ninnies tire themselves out so that the people who are willing to reach across the table, admit that their movements have baggage and are mature enough to look past that baggage can have a melding of the minds to get things accomplished.
- llamataboot 12y ago
  I'm sorry, but this is a false equivalence. On one side you have people literally threatening people with violence to the point of being forced to leave their homes, cancel speaking appearances, etc. On the other side, you have people pointing out this unfortunate fact.
  - iamdave 12y ago
    I ask this earnestly, but did I give some indication that the threats being delivered don't deserve scrutiny or should otherwise be waved aside as negligible? I guess I'm not entirely getting where you're coming from; my point was that there's a worthwhile discussion that needs to be had regarding sexism in gaming, but much of it has been muddled by participants from both camps. The death threats here, just happen to be example of muddling of side "A". Name calling, death-threats, "doxxing", there's mud being flung here, calling it a "false equivalence" when I've implicated both parties of not moving the ball forward seems rather obtuse.
    - 12y ago
le_hackour 12y ago
Perhaps the reason for your confusion is because there has never actually been a response with violence against her?
- burke 12y ago
  So death threats are okay as long as you don't follow through?
- ceejayoz 12y ago
  Per Wikipedia, the WHO defines violence as: "the intentional use of physical force or power, threatened or actual, against oneself, another person, or against a group or community, which either results in or has a high likelihood of resulting in injury, death, psychological harm, maldevelopment, or deprivation..." Death threats would certainly qualify under that.

by vlunkr 12y ago

Rubix117 12y ago

Cause the death threats are so real...

ben0x539 12y ago
A death threat doesn't become less real by not being followed through it, otherwise it'd be called murder, not death threat.
- Rubix117 12y ago
  I mean I very doubt they are real, she has been shown time and again to be a liar.
  - _wdh 12y ago
    Do you have a source or owt for that? You can't just drop something like that without any evidence.
  - ben0x539 12y ago
    This is a shitty gamergate meme and has no basis in reality. The evil "women in gaming" conspiracy would have to be very, very well organized to fabricate the amount of false flag abuse they're constantly subjecting themselves to just on twitter.
- seanflyon 12y ago
  The implication (dubious as it is) is that the threats were made by people on her side in order to garner sympathy. I think that would make the threats "not real", if it were the case.
vlunkr 12y ago
Even if they aren't real at all, how is that an appropriate response?
- Rubix117 12y ago
  Because lying about death threats causes more problems. I honestly can't believe people take this woman so seriously. As I have commented before she has been shown to be a liar. Nothing she says has any credibility.
  - nrinaudo 12y ago
    I'm sorry, I've been following this story for a while and every single one of the instances where she has been accused of lying that I know of has been debunked. I'm not calling you a liar, merely asking for you to point me to what I've been missing. I run in circles that are pretty pro-sarkeesian and may have suffered from selection bias. Do note, however, that simply stating that she's a liar is not an actual proof of anything. I'm asking for actual articles from reputable outlets, not quotes from Guest11743 on 4chan.
    - Karunamon 12y ago
      Maybe less direct lying and more by omission, but the one I always think of is but one of her videos points out a few supposedly misogynistic portions in the Hitman series of games - while forgetting to mention that the game penalizes you for doing what she's complaining about. There are other instances of this kind of failure to research - see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwwFx-tz9TY&feature=share https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwwFx-tz9TY&feature=share, starting at about 5:33.
      - nrinaudo 12y ago
        Right, I see where we misunderstood each other. You're talking about conclusions she reached that are debatable - and, indeed, debated rather a lot. I also disagree with some of them, but don't feel that qualifies her as a liar, just someone with whom I don't agree on everything. Possibly even someone that sometimes uses hyperbole to make her points. I'm most likely guilty of the same sin myself and don't begrudge her this stylistic shortcut. I was talking about, for example, accusations that: - she made the threats up - she was the author of some of the threats - she never actually did report the threats to the police These lies have either been debunked (the police report was produced, for example) or "proved" by nothing stronger than "it stands to reason", which I read as "there is no proof and never will be". We do not necessarily disagree on your points, just on whether that makes her a liar. Facts tend to show that, on average, she's much less of a liar than the people who attack her.
DanBC 12y ago
Do you doubt that she has received death threats? Do you doubt that other women recieve death threats?

iamdave 12y ago

>Why is no one allowed to be critical of video games? There's a lot of vitriol going back and forth by both sides of this latest iteration of the 'Battle of the Sexes'. I think abstracting back, a lot of very good points are being brought up that need to be discussed (lots of bad ones too, in the interest of intellectual honesty). It's not until you get a bit more granular that ugly heads start to rear up and we ultimately end up with this. We're at an unfortunate point right now that dissent is a tacit admission of complicity with the various social ills that people like Sarkesian are trying to explicate on a large scale at best, and treated as an existential threat to 'progress' at worst. No, that's not an indictment of the entire movement of feminism, but it's also not hard to find for anyone who goes and looks for it. I used to care about this, a lot. Now? I prefer to just sit back and let both sides of screaming ninnies tire themselves out so that the people who are willing to reach across the table, admit that their movements have baggage and are mature enough to look past that baggage can have a melding of the minds to get things accomplished.

llamataboot 12y ago
I'm sorry, but this is a false equivalence. On one side you have people literally threatening people with violence to the point of being forced to leave their homes, cancel speaking appearances, etc. On the other side, you have people pointing out this unfortunate fact.
- iamdave 12y ago
  I ask this earnestly, but did I give some indication that the threats being delivered don't deserve scrutiny or should otherwise be waved aside as negligible? I guess I'm not entirely getting where you're coming from; my point was that there's a worthwhile discussion that needs to be had regarding sexism in gaming, but much of it has been muddled by participants from both camps. The death threats here, just happen to be example of muddling of side "A". Name calling, death-threats, "doxxing", there's mud being flung here, calling it a "false equivalence" when I've implicated both parties of not moving the ball forward seems rather obtuse.
  - 12y ago

le_hackour 12y ago

Perhaps the reason for your confusion is because there has never actually been a response with violence against her?

burke 12y ago
So death threats are okay as long as you don't follow through?
ceejayoz 12y ago
Per Wikipedia, the WHO defines violence as: "the intentional use of physical force or power, threatened or actual, against oneself, another person, or against a group or community, which either results in or has a high likelihood of resulting in injury, death, psychological harm, maldevelopment, or deprivation..." Death threats would certainly qualify under that.