7 ms·

Her video series, which you can see on YouTube, is actually quite good and well-researched. You might disagree with her conclusions (I agree with them) but eve

by mturmon 12y ago

Her video series, which you can see on YouTube, is actually quite good and well-researched. You might disagree with her conclusions (I agree with them) but even if you disagree, you have to admit she's done a lot of legwork.

Argorak 12y ago
Even if they were poor or badly researched, death threats are just way out of scope. Like: NEVER, EVER, IN ANY INTERACTION ARE THEY OKAY, NO POINT TO ARGUE. They are also no joke. (sorry for using all caps for once) (I take explanations for downvotes)
- Houshalter 12y ago
  Saying that death threats are bad is not something anyone disagrees with, as far as I know. It's just an applause light (http://lesswrong.com/lw/jb/applause_lights/ http://lesswrong.com/lw/jb/applause_lights/) at best.
  - Argorak 12y ago
    This very page has people arguing that death threats are par for the course on the internet and should be ignored as well as others trying to contextualize them. There is a reason why I wrote this sentence on this very page.
    - Houshalter 12y ago
      You said that making death threats was bad, which everyone agrees on. Some people disagree that they are as significant as made out to be. Almost all controversial figures get death threats. Obama gets 30 a day, about 40,000 in total. Yet assassinations and mass shootings are extremely rare.
      - Argorak 12y ago
        No. I said that they are never okay and no joke, which people disagree with (including you, just now, you argue that they are ignorable). Don't rephrase or interpret. Yes, Obama gets 30 per day. What a sad world we live in, in which people are okay with that. Also, Obama can pay for bodyguards. The goal of a death threat is not necessarily the killing, but insecurity and psychological effect.
caligulatte 12y ago
The 'Women as Background Part 2' video was very well-made, and utterly disturbing. I've seen terrible videos and images - it is the Internet afterall- but it was painful to watch. There's a number of games on there that I no longer care to revisit, or even play for the first time. (Also, what were the makers of God of War 3 thinking? Staggers the mind.)
- archagon 12y ago
  Yeah... and the worst part is, you kind of grow to ignore these tropes as you play these games. (And of course, this makes developers try to amp up the grit more and more.) Seeing them all at once is quite shocking. This is one of the reasons why I think these videos are very valuable.
- mturmon 12y ago
  I agree, it is painful to watch. I wonder about my gender sometimes -- it's not like misogyny is isolated to video games. Boys' clubs seem to allow it to blossom.
- sebular 12y ago
  Your comment provoked me to go and watch that video, and watching it clarified this whole issue for me. As someone who's done a reasonable amount of undergraduate-level film and literature analysis, I felt that the video fell quite nicely in line with that style of presentation, and it's clear that Ms. Sarkeesian has a strong background in that area. If this were for an assignment, she would've gotten a perfect score. However, watching the video as a gamer, not as a student, there is one thing about her video which stands out to me as the reason why she inspires rage in a subset of gamers. Ms. Sarkeesian doesn't highlight anything positive about gender roles in the games that she critiques. While she is under no obligation to do so, the indignant gamer might accuse her of cherry-picking her facts, forgetting that her video series is about "Tropes vs Women", not "when games do justice and injustice to women". Her series really is like a homework assignment for a college class, where the professor has asked for a list of tropes. If she'd included a "full assessment" of each game, her paper would've been ten times as long, and the professor would've given her a lower grade for including a bunch of irrelevant information. In other words, her series is so single-minded in its purpose (to identify tropes) that it bothers gamers who feel that it's unfair that she only talks about "Tropes vs Women in Video Games". They misinterpret this as a video series on "games that fail women and are therefore terrible", when she's just doing a series on "games that have these tropes." They're enraged not by what she says, but rather by what she omits. And as far as games journalism goes, the fully-fledged "feminist game ratings" YouTube series/website is a void still waiting to be filled.
hashberry 12y ago
It better be. She raised $158K on Kickstarter to make these YouTube videos. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/566429325/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/566429325/tropes-vs-wom...
- bvanslyke 12y ago
  In case you (the reader of this comment) are interested in what kind of person it is that races to articles to post this tidbit, try taking a dive through his comment history. > hashberry 235 days ago | link | parent | on: My children’s book on technology raised 100k withi... > The presentation and video was amazing. I immediately fell in love with her. She smiles non-stop. She jumps around with giddy excitement in a cute little dress. She's the perfect manic pixie dream girl trope. I want her to have all my babies. I know hashberry's too far gone to change his mind, but to anyone else reading, if you're hearing about Anita for the first time and are on the fence about what's going on, realize that there is an army of sexists who swarm to all women-in-tech articles to push the same talking points over and over.
  - hashberry 12y ago
    Shaming male hetrosexuality is Feminism 101. Yes, I am attracted to young, maternal, intelligent women who like to smile.
    - AnimalMuppet 12y ago
      There's nothing wrong with what you're attracted to. What's wrong is that you seem to think that commenting on your attraction to the female in the video is a worthwhile comment on the video. The video might have actual content, you know? It might be less sexist of you to actually pay some attention to the content, rather than to your attraction to the presenter?
- smackfu 12y ago
  You say that like it's a bad thing.
- 12y ago
hnha 12y ago
no, they are not. She is cherry picking examples, sometimes twisting the truth so it fits her agenda. See the Hitman example where she portrays violence against women as integral part of the game while you are in fact punished by the game for doing so. She also never properly cites research (please point me that is not true). If her videos were well researched and fair, maybe there would have never such a shitstorm.
- comrh 12y ago
  > maybe there would have never such a shitstorm. Nice. All this is totally her fault then.
  - hnha 12y ago
    Nice cherry you picked there. If you would leave a meaningful comment, I would be happy to talk. I stand by my words. Her videos are full of lies. They are on a Columbine or Jack Thomson level of "objectivity". Someone please prove me wrong about Hitman otherwise.
    - comrh 12y ago
      > If her videos were well researched and fair, maybe there would have never such a shitstorm. This isn't about her videos. It is about the shitstorm (death threats!) you say is somehow partially her fault. Coming from the same person who said she was "bathing in the outrage". This is beyond criticism of her work, this is an attack.
    - EvilTrout 12y ago
      I watched her video that featured Hitman Absolution as well and I don't recall her saying "this is integral" to the game. It was one of many examples. Also, to me that sounds like cherry picking -- out of literally dozens of games you are focusing on one example. And that specific example is from a game that caused outrage before it was even released for their "sexy latex nun" trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9NC-PCHp_I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9NC-PCHp_I
Rubix117 12y ago
I disagree. Her videos have been shown to cherry pick. She is also a liar and has no interest in video gaming. This has been shown in older videos of herself. Its a money making scam.
- ben0x539 12y ago
  How is it a scam? People gave her money to post videos about video games, she is posting videos about video games. Are you saying she's not enthusiastic enough about the video games she's calling out to deserve the money people decided to pay her?
  - vec 12y ago
    He's obviously using the colloquial definition of the word "scam", namely "a completely legal and ethical enterprise with a business model that I, personally, disapprove of".
    - ben0x539 12y ago
      Nah, the meme that she scammed their supporters by taking the kickstarter money and disappearing has been part of the harassment campaign against her since the beginning, before she published the first videos. People in the gamergate miasma just don't like giving up their talking points even if blatantly contradicted by reality, I suppose. :V
- DanBC 12y ago
  You repeatedly call her a liar. Your inability to point to any occasion where she has lied is telling.

by mturmon 12y ago

Argorak 12y ago

Even if they were poor or badly researched, death threats are just way out of scope. Like: NEVER, EVER, IN ANY INTERACTION ARE THEY OKAY, NO POINT TO ARGUE. They are also no joke. (sorry for using all caps for once) (I take explanations for downvotes)

Houshalter 12y ago
Saying that death threats are bad is not something anyone disagrees with, as far as I know. It's just an applause light (http://lesswrong.com/lw/jb/applause_lights/ http://lesswrong.com/lw/jb/applause_lights/) at best.
- Argorak 12y ago
  This very page has people arguing that death threats are par for the course on the internet and should be ignored as well as others trying to contextualize them. There is a reason why I wrote this sentence on this very page.
  - Houshalter 12y ago
    You said that making death threats was bad, which everyone agrees on. Some people disagree that they are as significant as made out to be. Almost all controversial figures get death threats. Obama gets 30 a day, about 40,000 in total. Yet assassinations and mass shootings are extremely rare.
    - Argorak 12y ago
      No. I said that they are never okay and no joke, which people disagree with (including you, just now, you argue that they are ignorable). Don't rephrase or interpret. Yes, Obama gets 30 per day. What a sad world we live in, in which people are okay with that. Also, Obama can pay for bodyguards. The goal of a death threat is not necessarily the killing, but insecurity and psychological effect.

caligulatte 12y ago

The 'Women as Background Part 2' video was very well-made, and utterly disturbing. I've seen terrible videos and images - it is the Internet afterall- but it was painful to watch. There's a number of games on there that I no longer care to revisit, or even play for the first time. (Also, what were the makers of God of War 3 thinking? Staggers the mind.)

archagon 12y ago
Yeah... and the worst part is, you kind of grow to ignore these tropes as you play these games. (And of course, this makes developers try to amp up the grit more and more.) Seeing them all at once is quite shocking. This is one of the reasons why I think these videos are very valuable.
mturmon 12y ago
I agree, it is painful to watch. I wonder about my gender sometimes -- it's not like misogyny is isolated to video games. Boys' clubs seem to allow it to blossom.
sebular 12y ago
Your comment provoked me to go and watch that video, and watching it clarified this whole issue for me. As someone who's done a reasonable amount of undergraduate-level film and literature analysis, I felt that the video fell quite nicely in line with that style of presentation, and it's clear that Ms. Sarkeesian has a strong background in that area. If this were for an assignment, she would've gotten a perfect score. However, watching the video as a gamer, not as a student, there is one thing about her video which stands out to me as the reason why she inspires rage in a subset of gamers. Ms. Sarkeesian doesn't highlight anything positive about gender roles in the games that she critiques. While she is under no obligation to do so, the indignant gamer might accuse her of cherry-picking her facts, forgetting that her video series is about "Tropes vs Women", not "when games do justice and injustice to women". Her series really is like a homework assignment for a college class, where the professor has asked for a list of tropes. If she'd included a "full assessment" of each game, her paper would've been ten times as long, and the professor would've given her a lower grade for including a bunch of irrelevant information. In other words, her series is so single-minded in its purpose (to identify tropes) that it bothers gamers who feel that it's unfair that she only talks about "Tropes vs Women in Video Games". They misinterpret this as a video series on "games that fail women and are therefore terrible", when she's just doing a series on "games that have these tropes." They're enraged not by what she says, but rather by what she omits. And as far as games journalism goes, the fully-fledged "feminist game ratings" YouTube series/website is a void still waiting to be filled.

hashberry 12y ago

It better be. She raised $158K on Kickstarter to make these YouTube videos. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/566429325/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/566429325/tropes-vs-wom...

bvanslyke 12y ago
In case you (the reader of this comment) are interested in what kind of person it is that races to articles to post this tidbit, try taking a dive through his comment history. > hashberry 235 days ago | link | parent | on: My children’s book on technology raised 100k withi... > The presentation and video was amazing. I immediately fell in love with her. She smiles non-stop. She jumps around with giddy excitement in a cute little dress. She's the perfect manic pixie dream girl trope. I want her to have all my babies. I know hashberry's too far gone to change his mind, but to anyone else reading, if you're hearing about Anita for the first time and are on the fence about what's going on, realize that there is an army of sexists who swarm to all women-in-tech articles to push the same talking points over and over.
- hashberry 12y ago
  Shaming male hetrosexuality is Feminism 101. Yes, I am attracted to young, maternal, intelligent women who like to smile.
  - AnimalMuppet 12y ago
    There's nothing wrong with what you're attracted to. What's wrong is that you seem to think that commenting on your attraction to the female in the video is a worthwhile comment on the video. The video might have actual content, you know? It might be less sexist of you to actually pay some attention to the content, rather than to your attraction to the presenter?
smackfu 12y ago
You say that like it's a bad thing.
12y ago

hnha 12y ago

no, they are not. She is cherry picking examples, sometimes twisting the truth so it fits her agenda. See the Hitman example where she portrays violence against women as integral part of the game while you are in fact punished by the game for doing so. She also never properly cites research (please point me that is not true). If her videos were well researched and fair, maybe there would have never such a shitstorm.

comrh 12y ago
> maybe there would have never such a shitstorm. Nice. All this is totally her fault then.
- hnha 12y ago
  Nice cherry you picked there. If you would leave a meaningful comment, I would be happy to talk. I stand by my words. Her videos are full of lies. They are on a Columbine or Jack Thomson level of "objectivity". Someone please prove me wrong about Hitman otherwise.
  - comrh 12y ago
    > If her videos were well researched and fair, maybe there would have never such a shitstorm. This isn't about her videos. It is about the shitstorm (death threats!) you say is somehow partially her fault. Coming from the same person who said she was "bathing in the outrage". This is beyond criticism of her work, this is an attack.
  - EvilTrout 12y ago
    I watched her video that featured Hitman Absolution as well and I don't recall her saying "this is integral" to the game. It was one of many examples. Also, to me that sounds like cherry picking -- out of literally dozens of games you are focusing on one example. And that specific example is from a game that caused outrage before it was even released for their "sexy latex nun" trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9NC-PCHp_I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9NC-PCHp_I

Rubix117 12y ago

I disagree. Her videos have been shown to cherry pick. She is also a liar and has no interest in video gaming. This has been shown in older videos of herself. Its a money making scam.

ben0x539 12y ago
How is it a scam? People gave her money to post videos about video games, she is posting videos about video games. Are you saying she's not enthusiastic enough about the video games she's calling out to deserve the money people decided to pay her?
- vec 12y ago
  He's obviously using the colloquial definition of the word "scam", namely "a completely legal and ethical enterprise with a business model that I, personally, disapprove of".
  - ben0x539 12y ago
    Nah, the meme that she scammed their supporters by taking the kickstarter money and disappearing has been part of the harassment campaign against her since the beginning, before she published the first videos. People in the gamergate miasma just don't like giving up their talking points even if blatantly contradicted by reality, I suppose. :V
DanBC 12y ago
You repeatedly call her a liar. Your inability to point to any occasion where she has lied is telling.