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I think Google is at a big disadvantage when it comes to shopping. Amazon already has a powerful ecosystem. You can become an Amazon seller. Amazon sells it's o

I think Google is at a big disadvantage when it comes to shopping. Amazon already has a powerful ecosystem. You can become an Amazon seller. Amazon sells it's own brand of many items, which are all high-quality, low-price. Amazon has a well-understood review system, with comments. Amazon has fairly strict quality controls, and if something goes wrong, Amazon will bend-over-backwards to make sure it comes out in your favor. I have never been burned in nearly a decade of Amazon usage. I don't know anyone who has. Google does not has an ecosystem. It does not have strict quality controls. If a delivery goes bad, what will they offer? Google has notoriously awful customer support. I know plenty of people who have complaints about Google products and services. And I don't see how Google can bridge this gap to compete with Amazon. Google and Amazon have different cultures, Amazon treats every day as the first day of business, Google is an ad company. There is a wide chasm between the two ideals. Even if Google spends it's way to parity with Amazon, they have merely caught up. Being equal with Amazon will not cause defections for Amazon. But it will cost Google a lot.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
Animats 12y ago
Google has notoriously awful customer support. That's going to be a problem for Google. Google is used to the advertiser being the customer, and they have a big staff to hand-hold big advertisers. End users, not so much. Amazon is reasonably good at customer service, and has a culture of keeping the customer happy even if it costs them something. Google sells the Nexus phone. For a good time, go to the support page for the device (https://support.google.com/nexus/?hl=en#topic=3424348 https://support.google.com/nexus/?hl=en#topic=3424348) and follow the steps for "My phone won't turn on". See what you have to go through before you can even communicate with support. For warranties, they refer you to Samsung, unless you bought the thing through Google Play. They'd probably like to send those problems to Samsung, too, but in the US they run into the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, which says the retailer can't do that.
- damian2000 12y ago
  Unfortunately they approach customer service in the same way they approach web apps - scale it up by automating everything.
  - brador 12y ago
    The thing is a lot of bug fix and iteration ideas can come from customer support logging (see recent Wufoo talk for example). With PPoor customer support they're missing out on that valuable feedback, which might explain Googles lack of customer market fit even through multiple generations.
- rquirk 12y ago
  I've had problems twice with a 2012 Nexus 7 that wouldn't charge any more. Both times Google replaced it under warranty with a refurbished model. On another occasion - related actually, as I had to set up Wallet to get the refurbished unit shipped (they make a charge up front, but it doesn't go through if you ship the old unit back) - my son spent 40€ on virtual clams (sigh), and when I contacted support they refunded the money. This is just a couple of anecdotes, but in my experience the support was good.
  - blinkingled 12y ago
    I can second that - similarly good support experience with 2012 and 2013 N7. (Both had flimsy battery charging ports or the kids abused them somehow.) But that's not to say their support for their other online properties is existent or stellar - just that they are capable of doing.
- rryan 12y ago
  Having just gone through this for my Nexus 5 (defective GPS), you're wrong. - I was on a live-chat with a rep within minutes. - They shipped me a new Nexus 5 next-day air. - I made sure I had all my data off the old phone. - I shipped the old one back with the free shipping label. No hassle, no fuss. Super impressed.
- TrevorJ 12y ago
cromwellian 12y ago
I won't defend customer service, but I will point out that what Google is doing is 'federated' shopping, and what Amazon does is centralized fulfillment. Google Shopping Express is basically about using software algorithms to index and manage inventory and a fleet of vehicles across a large number of heterogeneous local brick-and-mortar suppliers. In other words, it brings Walmart/Amazons scale logistics to the local shop. Fulfillment in Google Shopping Express means supporting your local community, your local suppliers, rather than a big warehouse sitting somewhere. I view this is fundamentally more "webby"/decentralized and better for the economy than a winner-takes-all-megastore. Create a platform for locals to have their inventory discoverable to nearby shoppers, and an efficient way to offer same-day delivery. It may not be ultimately as efficient as Amazon's model, but Google Shopping Express seems to be to be putting Amazon's logistics up against the entire local market of your area. This makes Amazon an enemy of your local shops, and Google a naturally aligned ally, that brings customers, and helps with delivery. Now, the customer service issue will have to be solved. But let's stop with the "ad company" canard, Shopping Express is a technology innovation, not about ads.
- higherpurpose 12y ago
  Everything trends towards decentralization in the long term, so Google's strategy seems sound. Its success then will depend on execution.
  - wickawic 12y ago
    I don't think that's true for physical businesses. Technology actually allows businesses to be more monolithic and centralized because it reduces the pain of managing lots of moving parts. Making purchasing and delivery decentralized may have its own benefits, but I hardly think it is an evolutionary conclusion in itself.
  - vidarh 12y ago
    Decentralisation, yes, but not all the way to store fronts. Shops represents a massive about of dispersal of inventory to areas which are not where the customer wants to be, and where rental costs are vastly higher. It makes sense for products customers want to see before buying, or _likes_ to browse for and/or wants right away The last part being important - before HMV in the UK went into administration, the last few years whenever we went browsing there we almost never bought anything because smartphones meant we were made acutely aware that Amazon was usually cheaper, and we could have it next day anyway; so the only purchases we made was when we decided we wanted to watch something the same evening (and these days even if you want to own the physical DVD it's better to stream: Sky offers a service where you can buy a DVD, get it mailed to you, but at the same time can start streaming the movie immediately; more and more business models are incompatible with high street storefronts). And Amazon is decentralising: In the UK for example, they've started rolling out their own delivery depots so that increasingly only "last mile" (or more like 5-10 mile) delivery is done by external delivery companies. Expect the depots to start holding some level of inventory of the products they ship the highest volumes of, and for delivery times to keep shrinking (in the UK they're now rolling out same day pickup from a number of locations)
ashishgandhi 12y ago
> If a delivery goes bad, what will they offer? I have contacted their support for Google Express before. It was because a delivery did not show up. Turns out I had selected the following day as the delivery day. Happy the mystery was solved (user error) I thank them. I get an email a few minutes later with a $5 credit for the confusion. Another time I ordered a Space Pen with a clip. I got one that was without a clip. I contacted them and they said the one with the clip was no longer in stock. They refunded my money and let me keep the pen. Never asked for the refund. > Google has notoriously awful customer support. Yeah, I too read that somewhere on Hacker News.
- smackfu 12y ago
  That's good that they are taking support for this particular product seriously. I've also heard they have good support for their paid services.
coldpie 12y ago
Completely off topic nit-pick: "It's" is a contraction for "it is" or "it has". "Its" signifies ownership, just like "hers". "Amazon sells its own brand", since the brand belongs to Amazon. "Even if Google spends its way" since the way belongs to Google. I know no one likes the grammar police, but it is really distracting to read otherwise well-written comments when they contain such basic mistakes.
fidotron 12y ago
Google just consistently take the easy way out. It's the automation thing where they still act like a tiny company that can't afford to solve a problem that will need actual people to resolve it, and so make business decisions based on "which of these options can we automate?" over almost everything else.
opendais 12y ago
> I think Google is at a big disadvantage when it comes to shopping. Amazon already has a powerful ecosystem. You can become an Amazon seller. Amazon sells it's own brand of many items, which are all high-quality, low-price. Amazon has a well-understood review system, with comments. Amazon has fairly strict quality controls, and if something goes wrong, Amazon will bend-over-backwards to make sure it comes out in your favor. I have never been burned in nearly a decade of Amazon usage. I don't know anyone who has. Well, I know quite a few people who have. I am one of them. I've had to issue chargebacks in my dealings with Amazon for stuff I bought via them that they failed to deliver on. Amazon's "strict quality controls" aren't really existent either. They have no quality controls in place beyond the customer feedback/complaint mechanism and some crude delivery/shipment tracking mechanics. Amazon doesn't have the ability to inspect the merchandise it ships a significant percentage of the time so claiming they have "strict quality controls" is ignorant at a minimum.
AJ007 12y ago
I agree with what you say about Google, but I disagree with how great Amazon is. Amazon has weaknesses. I have had increasing problems with counterfeit products to the point some things I just will not buy from Amazon anymore. There is a huge problem with terrible quality products ranking highly in Amazon's results, especially when it comes to household goods. Whether the reviews are fake, the items been swapped (counterfeiting), or people are just that stupid it isn't clear. Some reviews give adequate warnings and they are very scary. Exploding cast iron cookware? Check. Generally Amazon's support is pretty good, but once you are buying through third party sellers it becomes a little more iffy. Where does the liability sit if I or someone I know is hurt by a shady product that would never make it in to Wal Mart? The line is not so clear. Google certainly has the ability to take some market share away if they focus really hard on Amazon's weak points. However, I also suspect those weak points are where some of their hidden margins reside.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

Animats 12y ago

Google has notoriously awful customer support. That's going to be a problem for Google. Google is used to the advertiser being the customer, and they have a big staff to hand-hold big advertisers. End users, not so much. Amazon is reasonably good at customer service, and has a culture of keeping the customer happy even if it costs them something. Google sells the Nexus phone. For a good time, go to the support page for the device (https://support.google.com/nexus/?hl=en#topic=3424348 https://support.google.com/nexus/?hl=en#topic=3424348) and follow the steps for "My phone won't turn on". See what you have to go through before you can even communicate with support. For warranties, they refer you to Samsung, unless you bought the thing through Google Play. They'd probably like to send those problems to Samsung, too, but in the US they run into the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, which says the retailer can't do that.

damian2000 12y ago
Unfortunately they approach customer service in the same way they approach web apps - scale it up by automating everything.
- brador 12y ago
  The thing is a lot of bug fix and iteration ideas can come from customer support logging (see recent Wufoo talk for example). With PPoor customer support they're missing out on that valuable feedback, which might explain Googles lack of customer market fit even through multiple generations.
rquirk 12y ago
I've had problems twice with a 2012 Nexus 7 that wouldn't charge any more. Both times Google replaced it under warranty with a refurbished model. On another occasion - related actually, as I had to set up Wallet to get the refurbished unit shipped (they make a charge up front, but it doesn't go through if you ship the old unit back) - my son spent 40€ on virtual clams (sigh), and when I contacted support they refunded the money. This is just a couple of anecdotes, but in my experience the support was good.
- blinkingled 12y ago
  I can second that - similarly good support experience with 2012 and 2013 N7. (Both had flimsy battery charging ports or the kids abused them somehow.) But that's not to say their support for their other online properties is existent or stellar - just that they are capable of doing.
rryan 12y ago
Having just gone through this for my Nexus 5 (defective GPS), you're wrong. - I was on a live-chat with a rep within minutes. - They shipped me a new Nexus 5 next-day air. - I made sure I had all my data off the old phone. - I shipped the old one back with the free shipping label. No hassle, no fuss. Super impressed.
TrevorJ 12y ago

cromwellian 12y ago

I won't defend customer service, but I will point out that what Google is doing is 'federated' shopping, and what Amazon does is centralized fulfillment. Google Shopping Express is basically about using software algorithms to index and manage inventory and a fleet of vehicles across a large number of heterogeneous local brick-and-mortar suppliers. In other words, it brings Walmart/Amazons scale logistics to the local shop. Fulfillment in Google Shopping Express means supporting your local community, your local suppliers, rather than a big warehouse sitting somewhere. I view this is fundamentally more "webby"/decentralized and better for the economy than a winner-takes-all-megastore. Create a platform for locals to have their inventory discoverable to nearby shoppers, and an efficient way to offer same-day delivery. It may not be ultimately as efficient as Amazon's model, but Google Shopping Express seems to be to be putting Amazon's logistics up against the entire local market of your area. This makes Amazon an enemy of your local shops, and Google a naturally aligned ally, that brings customers, and helps with delivery. Now, the customer service issue will have to be solved. But let's stop with the "ad company" canard, Shopping Express is a technology innovation, not about ads.

higherpurpose 12y ago
Everything trends towards decentralization in the long term, so Google's strategy seems sound. Its success then will depend on execution.
- wickawic 12y ago
  I don't think that's true for physical businesses. Technology actually allows businesses to be more monolithic and centralized because it reduces the pain of managing lots of moving parts. Making purchasing and delivery decentralized may have its own benefits, but I hardly think it is an evolutionary conclusion in itself.
- vidarh 12y ago
  Decentralisation, yes, but not all the way to store fronts. Shops represents a massive about of dispersal of inventory to areas which are not where the customer wants to be, and where rental costs are vastly higher. It makes sense for products customers want to see before buying, or _likes_ to browse for and/or wants right away The last part being important - before HMV in the UK went into administration, the last few years whenever we went browsing there we almost never bought anything because smartphones meant we were made acutely aware that Amazon was usually cheaper, and we could have it next day anyway; so the only purchases we made was when we decided we wanted to watch something the same evening (and these days even if you want to own the physical DVD it's better to stream: Sky offers a service where you can buy a DVD, get it mailed to you, but at the same time can start streaming the movie immediately; more and more business models are incompatible with high street storefronts). And Amazon is decentralising: In the UK for example, they've started rolling out their own delivery depots so that increasingly only "last mile" (or more like 5-10 mile) delivery is done by external delivery companies. Expect the depots to start holding some level of inventory of the products they ship the highest volumes of, and for delivery times to keep shrinking (in the UK they're now rolling out same day pickup from a number of locations)

ashishgandhi 12y ago

> If a delivery goes bad, what will they offer? I have contacted their support for Google Express before. It was because a delivery did not show up. Turns out I had selected the following day as the delivery day. Happy the mystery was solved (user error) I thank them. I get an email a few minutes later with a $5 credit for the confusion. Another time I ordered a Space Pen with a clip. I got one that was without a clip. I contacted them and they said the one with the clip was no longer in stock. They refunded my money and let me keep the pen. Never asked for the refund. > Google has notoriously awful customer support. Yeah, I too read that somewhere on Hacker News.

smackfu 12y ago
That's good that they are taking support for this particular product seriously. I've also heard they have good support for their paid services.

coldpie 12y ago

Completely off topic nit-pick: "It's" is a contraction for "it is" or "it has". "Its" signifies ownership, just like "hers". "Amazon sells its own brand", since the brand belongs to Amazon. "Even if Google spends its way" since the way belongs to Google. I know no one likes the grammar police, but it is really distracting to read otherwise well-written comments when they contain such basic mistakes.

fidotron 12y ago

Google just consistently take the easy way out. It's the automation thing where they still act like a tiny company that can't afford to solve a problem that will need actual people to resolve it, and so make business decisions based on "which of these options can we automate?" over almost everything else.

opendais 12y ago

> I think Google is at a big disadvantage when it comes to shopping. Amazon already has a powerful ecosystem. You can become an Amazon seller. Amazon sells it's own brand of many items, which are all high-quality, low-price. Amazon has a well-understood review system, with comments. Amazon has fairly strict quality controls, and if something goes wrong, Amazon will bend-over-backwards to make sure it comes out in your favor. I have never been burned in nearly a decade of Amazon usage. I don't know anyone who has. Well, I know quite a few people who have. I am one of them. I've had to issue chargebacks in my dealings with Amazon for stuff I bought via them that they failed to deliver on. Amazon's "strict quality controls" aren't really existent either. They have no quality controls in place beyond the customer feedback/complaint mechanism and some crude delivery/shipment tracking mechanics. Amazon doesn't have the ability to inspect the merchandise it ships a significant percentage of the time so claiming they have "strict quality controls" is ignorant at a minimum.

AJ007 12y ago

I agree with what you say about Google, but I disagree with how great Amazon is. Amazon has weaknesses. I have had increasing problems with counterfeit products to the point some things I just will not buy from Amazon anymore. There is a huge problem with terrible quality products ranking highly in Amazon's results, especially when it comes to household goods. Whether the reviews are fake, the items been swapped (counterfeiting), or people are just that stupid it isn't clear. Some reviews give adequate warnings and they are very scary. Exploding cast iron cookware? Check. Generally Amazon's support is pretty good, but once you are buying through third party sellers it becomes a little more iffy. Where does the liability sit if I or someone I know is hurt by a shady product that would never make it in to Wal Mart? The line is not so clear. Google certainly has the ability to take some market share away if they focus really hard on Amazon's weak points. However, I also suspect those weak points are where some of their hidden margins reside.