5 ms·

How Amazon Prime delivery hurts Google’s ad business

91 points by rpm4321 12y ago

TrevorJ 12y ago
Perhaps if Google had not gotten greedy and made google shopping pay-to-play they would have had a shot at it. Pay-to-play hurts consumers a lot because the search results are tainted by it, and it hurts adoption because google is double dipping with it's own CPC customers.
- sounds 12y ago
  That's a great point. I came to ask whether it is likely Google will be improving their product search? As someone who remembers all the way back to Froogle, I still find myself on product search, obsessively checking amazon, google, ali express, ebay, etc. to try to find the best prices and to find competing products. Most often, that leads me to Asia. [Yes, I'm a geek, so most days I'm looking for consumer electronics.] I don't know but that Google is just as concerned with Alibaba's recent IPO, and Amazon is just a convenient whipping boy. As a side note, no, I still don't really take ebay listings seriously. Ebay and Paypal are still so seller-hostile that I just use them for research and then try to buy somewhere else.
  - pinkyand 12y ago
    > to try to find the best prices and to find competing products. Most often, that leads me to Asia. The problem with the Chinese goods is that it's very hard to locate high quality goods. The review systems are useless(full of junk) , and there's little reliable data about quality in english. So amazon becomes the default.
  - TrevorJ 12y ago
    It's no longer truly product search. It's simply a catalogue of ads that have been paid for.
- Animats 12y ago
  Even worse, now that Google itself is a retailer, merchants are paying Google to advertise against Google. I wouldn't be surprised if, soon, Google Shopping simply becomes Google's own product catalog.
  - vidarh 12y ago
    Consider that Amazon lets external merchants buy ad space on their pages, as well as pit their own sales against Amazon marketplace sellers.
- wutbrodo 12y ago
  Google Shopping was absolute garbage before they started charging; sellers just dumped random crap on there and didn't bother updating it because there was barely any incentive to. For the user, it's the difference between: 1) having a wasteland of outdated, incomplete and inaccurate information or 2) having a browsable set of ads. In the latter case, you're aware there's money behind the placement, but it's still far more useful than Google trying their best to do organic search over a corpus that's complete crap.
  - TrevorJ 12y ago
    I agree that it was garbage before, but it's worse now. I searched for every variation of "cannon 60D" I could think of today and didn't get one hit. Anecdotal evidence at best, but the point is, Google's business model with google shopping is not setting them up to be a meaningful competitor to Amazon whatsoever. I agree they needed to do something but turning google shopping into a competitor with Google's own CPC service seems like a poor idea all around.
    - wutbrodo 12y ago
      I also agree that it's still not particularly great, but I have noticed a pretty substantial improvement in quality. The fundamental problem here is that retail is a huge, huge mess. With exceptions for innovators like Walmart, most stores don't know what they have on their shelves, when they're out of stock, when something is purchased...it's absolutely absurd. The quality of the data is simply never going to be as good as Amazon's, charging for product listing ads is one of the way that Google is trying to nudge incentives towards higher quality data.
Afforess 12y ago
I think Google is at a big disadvantage when it comes to shopping. Amazon already has a powerful ecosystem. You can become an Amazon seller. Amazon sells it's own brand of many items, which are all high-quality, low-price. Amazon has a well-understood review system, with comments. Amazon has fairly strict quality controls, and if something goes wrong, Amazon will bend-over-backwards to make sure it comes out in your favor. I have never been burned in nearly a decade of Amazon usage. I don't know anyone who has. Google does not has an ecosystem. It does not have strict quality controls. If a delivery goes bad, what will they offer? Google has notoriously awful customer support. I know plenty of people who have complaints about Google products and services. And I don't see how Google can bridge this gap to compete with Amazon. Google and Amazon have different cultures, Amazon treats every day as the first day of business, Google is an ad company. There is a wide chasm between the two ideals. Even if Google spends it's way to parity with Amazon, they have merely caught up. Being equal with Amazon will not cause defections for Amazon. But it will cost Google a lot.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- Animats 12y ago
  Google has notoriously awful customer support. That's going to be a problem for Google. Google is used to the advertiser being the customer, and they have a big staff to hand-hold big advertisers. End users, not so much. Amazon is reasonably good at customer service, and has a culture of keeping the customer happy even if it costs them something. Google sells the Nexus phone. For a good time, go to the support page for the device (https://support.google.com/nexus/?hl=en#topic=3424348 https://support.google.com/nexus/?hl=en#topic=3424348) and follow the steps for "My phone won't turn on". See what you have to go through before you can even communicate with support. For warranties, they refer you to Samsung, unless you bought the thing through Google Play. They'd probably like to send those problems to Samsung, too, but in the US they run into the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, which says the retailer can't do that.
  - damian2000 12y ago
    Unfortunately they approach customer service in the same way they approach web apps - scale it up by automating everything.
ck2 12y ago
Amazon's search ability sucks though. You have to really really work to find legit items similar to what you want if it not a specific brand name item. Amazon also allows sellers to list cheap oem copies of products right on the genuine manufacturer page. For example if you want a phone battery from motorola specifically, you better buy it from amazon directly because all the other sellers on that page are cheap oem knockoffs that may not even have the battery temperature sensor inside. If the product directly from amazon goes out of stock, then a fake takes the place front and center. Here's a specific listing with this problem but there are thousands out there: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002MZZQVY/ http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002MZZQVY/ Says "genuine motorola" but the product being sold by the vendor is completely fake, cheap oem copy.
- damian2000 12y ago
  eBay and Amazon have become somewhat similar... eBay added stores and I believe is now dominated by 'Buy it now' buttons (i.e. not auctions). Amazon added sellers from everywhere in the world, with duplicated products.
pmontra 12y ago
> Each of those searches is one less that Google can use for serving up ads Those are direct competitors but Google is competing also with anything that keeps me away from the Internet. Given that we have Internet access every time we wish, with a phone, any activity that doesn't generate chances to make a search is lost money for Google. Sleeping, first of all. Make your own list for the rest. We can look at Google Glasses in a new light: a device to eventually be able to serve searches and ads everytime we're awake. No adblock there, I bet.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
rmsaksida 12y ago
One huge advantage Google has over Amazon is a much wider global presence. I understand Amazon has transformed shopping in the United States, but it still hasn't reached most of the world. Google has. In many developing markets, a Google analogue of Amazon would be absolutely killer.
eli 12y ago
"You're less likely to find a same-day delivery-ready molecular model set on Google Express, but for everyday needs like groceries and toiletries, the two services are fairly comparable." Really? I suppose it's probably possible to order milk and eggs from Amazon Prime, but that's not really their wheelhouse. Google Express seems much closer to a Postmates or Instacart (or, uh, Kozmo) competitor
vanderZwan 12y ago
As an aside, I consider "here's why" to be one of the most annoying developments in lazy headline writing in recent memory.
- cheald 12y ago
  Along with "This X is/will..." and "You'll never believe..." and other buzzfeedisms. I've just made it a personal policy to not click headlines that don't actually tell me what the story is about.
  - JoeAltmaier 12y ago
    10 ways to ... {Stuff} they don't want you to know!
- sharkweek 12y ago
  For the cynic in all of us... https://twitter.com/SavedYouAClick https://twitter.com/SavedYouAClick
robomartin 12y ago
The other point that is missed here is that today, as an entrepreneur, it is far easier to make money on Amazon than it is with Google. Particularly if we are talking specifically about ads.
discardorama 12y ago
It is true. Whenever I'm looking for a product, I go to Amazon, because I know I will find products; not spammy sites, fake "review" sites, etc. that I get on Google. If Google did a better job showing product info, I might use them; but right now I'm not.

91 points by rpm4321 12y ago

Perhaps if Google had not gotten greedy and made google shopping pay-to-play they would have had a shot at it. Pay-to-play hurts consumers a lot because the search results are tainted by it, and it hurts adoption because google is double dipping with it's own CPC customers.

sounds 12y ago
That's a great point. I came to ask whether it is likely Google will be improving their product search? As someone who remembers all the way back to Froogle, I still find myself on product search, obsessively checking amazon, google, ali express, ebay, etc. to try to find the best prices and to find competing products. Most often, that leads me to Asia. [Yes, I'm a geek, so most days I'm looking for consumer electronics.] I don't know but that Google is just as concerned with Alibaba's recent IPO, and Amazon is just a convenient whipping boy. As a side note, no, I still don't really take ebay listings seriously. Ebay and Paypal are still so seller-hostile that I just use them for research and then try to buy somewhere else.
- pinkyand 12y ago
  > to try to find the best prices and to find competing products. Most often, that leads me to Asia. The problem with the Chinese goods is that it's very hard to locate high quality goods. The review systems are useless(full of junk) , and there's little reliable data about quality in english. So amazon becomes the default.
- TrevorJ 12y ago
  It's no longer truly product search. It's simply a catalogue of ads that have been paid for.
Animats 12y ago
Even worse, now that Google itself is a retailer, merchants are paying Google to advertise against Google. I wouldn't be surprised if, soon, Google Shopping simply becomes Google's own product catalog.
- vidarh 12y ago
  Consider that Amazon lets external merchants buy ad space on their pages, as well as pit their own sales against Amazon marketplace sellers.
wutbrodo 12y ago
Google Shopping was absolute garbage before they started charging; sellers just dumped random crap on there and didn't bother updating it because there was barely any incentive to. For the user, it's the difference between: 1) having a wasteland of outdated, incomplete and inaccurate information or 2) having a browsable set of ads. In the latter case, you're aware there's money behind the placement, but it's still far more useful than Google trying their best to do organic search over a corpus that's complete crap.
- TrevorJ 12y ago
  I agree that it was garbage before, but it's worse now. I searched for every variation of "cannon 60D" I could think of today and didn't get one hit. Anecdotal evidence at best, but the point is, Google's business model with google shopping is not setting them up to be a meaningful competitor to Amazon whatsoever. I agree they needed to do something but turning google shopping into a competitor with Google's own CPC service seems like a poor idea all around.
  - wutbrodo 12y ago
    I also agree that it's still not particularly great, but I have noticed a pretty substantial improvement in quality. The fundamental problem here is that retail is a huge, huge mess. With exceptions for innovators like Walmart, most stores don't know what they have on their shelves, when they're out of stock, when something is purchased...it's absolutely absurd. The quality of the data is simply never going to be as good as Amazon's, charging for product listing ads is one of the way that Google is trying to nudge incentives towards higher quality data.

Afforess 12y ago

I think Google is at a big disadvantage when it comes to shopping. Amazon already has a powerful ecosystem. You can become an Amazon seller. Amazon sells it's own brand of many items, which are all high-quality, low-price. Amazon has a well-understood review system, with comments. Amazon has fairly strict quality controls, and if something goes wrong, Amazon will bend-over-backwards to make sure it comes out in your favor. I have never been burned in nearly a decade of Amazon usage. I don't know anyone who has. Google does not has an ecosystem. It does not have strict quality controls. If a delivery goes bad, what will they offer? Google has notoriously awful customer support. I know plenty of people who have complaints about Google products and services. And I don't see how Google can bridge this gap to compete with Amazon. Google and Amazon have different cultures, Amazon treats every day as the first day of business, Google is an ad company. There is a wide chasm between the two ideals. Even if Google spends it's way to parity with Amazon, they have merely caught up. Being equal with Amazon will not cause defections for Amazon. But it will cost Google a lot.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
Animats 12y ago
Google has notoriously awful customer support. That's going to be a problem for Google. Google is used to the advertiser being the customer, and they have a big staff to hand-hold big advertisers. End users, not so much. Amazon is reasonably good at customer service, and has a culture of keeping the customer happy even if it costs them something. Google sells the Nexus phone. For a good time, go to the support page for the device (https://support.google.com/nexus/?hl=en#topic=3424348 https://support.google.com/nexus/?hl=en#topic=3424348) and follow the steps for "My phone won't turn on". See what you have to go through before you can even communicate with support. For warranties, they refer you to Samsung, unless you bought the thing through Google Play. They'd probably like to send those problems to Samsung, too, but in the US they run into the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, which says the retailer can't do that.
- damian2000 12y ago
  Unfortunately they approach customer service in the same way they approach web apps - scale it up by automating everything.

ck2 12y ago

Amazon's search ability sucks though. You have to really really work to find legit items similar to what you want if it not a specific brand name item. Amazon also allows sellers to list cheap oem copies of products right on the genuine manufacturer page. For example if you want a phone battery from motorola specifically, you better buy it from amazon directly because all the other sellers on that page are cheap oem knockoffs that may not even have the battery temperature sensor inside. If the product directly from amazon goes out of stock, then a fake takes the place front and center. Here's a specific listing with this problem but there are thousands out there: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002MZZQVY/ http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002MZZQVY/ Says "genuine motorola" but the product being sold by the vendor is completely fake, cheap oem copy.

damian2000 12y ago
eBay and Amazon have become somewhat similar... eBay added stores and I believe is now dominated by 'Buy it now' buttons (i.e. not auctions). Amazon added sellers from everywhere in the world, with duplicated products.

pmontra 12y ago

> Each of those searches is one less that Google can use for serving up ads Those are direct competitors but Google is competing also with anything that keeps me away from the Internet. Given that we have Internet access every time we wish, with a phone, any activity that doesn't generate chances to make a search is lost money for Google. Sleeping, first of all. Make your own list for the rest. We can look at Google Glasses in a new light: a device to eventually be able to serve searches and ads everytime we're awake. No adblock there, I bet.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

rmsaksida 12y ago

One huge advantage Google has over Amazon is a much wider global presence. I understand Amazon has transformed shopping in the United States, but it still hasn't reached most of the world. Google has. In many developing markets, a Google analogue of Amazon would be absolutely killer.

eli 12y ago

"You're less likely to find a same-day delivery-ready molecular model set on Google Express, but for everyday needs like groceries and toiletries, the two services are fairly comparable." Really? I suppose it's probably possible to order milk and eggs from Amazon Prime, but that's not really their wheelhouse. Google Express seems much closer to a Postmates or Instacart (or, uh, Kozmo) competitor

vanderZwan 12y ago

As an aside, I consider "here's why" to be one of the most annoying developments in lazy headline writing in recent memory.

cheald 12y ago
Along with "This X is/will..." and "You'll never believe..." and other buzzfeedisms. I've just made it a personal policy to not click headlines that don't actually tell me what the story is about.
- JoeAltmaier 12y ago
  10 ways to ... {Stuff} they don't want you to know!
sharkweek 12y ago
For the cynic in all of us... https://twitter.com/SavedYouAClick https://twitter.com/SavedYouAClick

robomartin 12y ago

The other point that is missed here is that today, as an entrepreneur, it is far easier to make money on Amazon than it is with Google. Particularly if we are talking specifically about ads.

discardorama 12y ago

It is true. Whenever I'm looking for a product, I go to Amazon, because I know I will find products; not spammy sites, fake "review" sites, etc. that I get on Google. If Google did a better job showing product info, I might use them; but right now I'm not.