5 ms·

Nothing about that campaign itself was sexist. But mix women and dating, and you get a ton of outcry from the media that the women are prostitutes. As a feminis

Nothing about that campaign itself was sexist. But mix women and dating, and you get a ton of outcry from the media that the women are prostitutes. As a feminist company, that wasn't fun for us to be associated with, but there was little we could do about that. The trip was mostly a joke, and also because we honestly thought a few people may end up having a good time. And one woman ended up falling in love and is now moving to SF. So, I'd hold off on insulting YC based on some publicity we've received. And .. all press is good press for growth for an early stage startup.

untog 12y ago
...I never said it was sexist?
king_jester 12y ago
> As a feminist company, that wasn't fun for us to be associated with, but there was little we could do about that. I don't see how your company could describe itself and feminist while also making a campaign that relies on some of the structural sexism of the Valley and tech. How did that campaign challenge the existing power structures and stereotypes/mythology of tech?
- atom-morgan 12y ago
  > How did that campaign challenge the existing power structures and stereotypes/mythology of tech? That wasn't her goal with the campaign.
  - king_jester 12y ago
    So what was the goal then? It seemed like a legit campaign that was raising actual money. How does one reconcile their company as feminist with how that campaigned operated?
    - mblevin 12y ago
      The goal was free marketing via the press who zeroed in on what appeared to be an ongoing SV story - Bubble 2.0 + gender imbalance + hapless engineer stereotypes. And by any measure, it was outrageously successful.
    - atom-morgan 12y ago
      > How does one reconcile their company as feminist with how that campaigned operated? By accepting those women as adults who are free and intelligent enough to make decisions that may not necessarily line up with the common branch of feminism popularized by the media.
    - peterwwillis 12y ago
      You don't have to spend every waking moment of your life, nor every resource or effort of an organization you belong to, to prove that you're worthy of associating with an ideal like feminism. If they identify with the feminist cause and support it, they don't need to prove it to you or justify how their campaign is or isn't feminist. It wasn't intended to be a feminist campaign, and it doesn't invalidate the rest of who they are or what they identify with.
      - king_jester 12y ago
        I'm not saying that they have to constantly spend time justifying themselves, but it is important to look critically at the work a company does when it claims to be feminist. In regards to the tilt campaign, I don't see how that campaign challenges the status quo and pushes for women's rights. I do see how it could be viewed as promoting or exploiting the mythology of male culture the Valley to raise money, which to some may be anti-feminist in nature. > If they identify with the feminist cause and support it, they don't need to prove it to you or justify how their campaign is or isn't feminist. We've seen that many times organizations that claim feminism or feminist principles often don't act in a way that is supporting of women, so being critical is fully warranted when an organization says one thing but does something that seems to do nothing but perpetuate existing stereotypes and problems. Moreover, they made the claim, not me, so asking "why is what you are doing feminist" is important.
mwhite 12y ago
What is a feminist company? Given that 'feminist' and 'feminism' are used by many people to mean many different things, it would be nice to specify what being a feminist company means. Is it just a company run by people who self-identify as feminists, maybe one that only hires other people who self-identify as feminists? If so, how do you enforce this? Or is the company's feminism defined by specific policies that are based in a specific meaning of 'feminism', and if so, what are they?
- cowsandmilk 12y ago
  Women constantly get harassed on okcupid. Their goal is to do online dating where the women won't get harassed. Being against the harassment of women is pretty fundamentally feminist.
  - dubfan 12y ago
    I always thought it was about "not being a bad person", a concept which predates feminism by a few millennia.
    - GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago
      The presence of "harassing women" has not traditionally been in the category of "things a good person does not do".
      - alttab 12y ago
        Yes but the problem can be addressed without addressing sex.
        GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago
        In some universe of pure forms, sure, but on the other hand: material reality.
    - scott_s 12y ago

untog 12y ago

...I never said it was sexist?

king_jester 12y ago

> As a feminist company, that wasn't fun for us to be associated with, but there was little we could do about that. I don't see how your company could describe itself and feminist while also making a campaign that relies on some of the structural sexism of the Valley and tech. How did that campaign challenge the existing power structures and stereotypes/mythology of tech?

atom-morgan 12y ago
> How did that campaign challenge the existing power structures and stereotypes/mythology of tech? That wasn't her goal with the campaign.
- king_jester 12y ago
  So what was the goal then? It seemed like a legit campaign that was raising actual money. How does one reconcile their company as feminist with how that campaigned operated?
  - mblevin 12y ago
    The goal was free marketing via the press who zeroed in on what appeared to be an ongoing SV story - Bubble 2.0 + gender imbalance + hapless engineer stereotypes. And by any measure, it was outrageously successful.
  - atom-morgan 12y ago
    > How does one reconcile their company as feminist with how that campaigned operated? By accepting those women as adults who are free and intelligent enough to make decisions that may not necessarily line up with the common branch of feminism popularized by the media.
  - peterwwillis 12y ago
    You don't have to spend every waking moment of your life, nor every resource or effort of an organization you belong to, to prove that you're worthy of associating with an ideal like feminism. If they identify with the feminist cause and support it, they don't need to prove it to you or justify how their campaign is or isn't feminist. It wasn't intended to be a feminist campaign, and it doesn't invalidate the rest of who they are or what they identify with.
    - king_jester 12y ago
      I'm not saying that they have to constantly spend time justifying themselves, but it is important to look critically at the work a company does when it claims to be feminist. In regards to the tilt campaign, I don't see how that campaign challenges the status quo and pushes for women's rights. I do see how it could be viewed as promoting or exploiting the mythology of male culture the Valley to raise money, which to some may be anti-feminist in nature. > If they identify with the feminist cause and support it, they don't need to prove it to you or justify how their campaign is or isn't feminist. We've seen that many times organizations that claim feminism or feminist principles often don't act in a way that is supporting of women, so being critical is fully warranted when an organization says one thing but does something that seems to do nothing but perpetuate existing stereotypes and problems. Moreover, they made the claim, not me, so asking "why is what you are doing feminist" is important.

mwhite 12y ago

What is a feminist company? Given that 'feminist' and 'feminism' are used by many people to mean many different things, it would be nice to specify what being a feminist company means. Is it just a company run by people who self-identify as feminists, maybe one that only hires other people who self-identify as feminists? If so, how do you enforce this? Or is the company's feminism defined by specific policies that are based in a specific meaning of 'feminism', and if so, what are they?

cowsandmilk 12y ago
Women constantly get harassed on okcupid. Their goal is to do online dating where the women won't get harassed. Being against the harassment of women is pretty fundamentally feminist.
- dubfan 12y ago
  I always thought it was about "not being a bad person", a concept which predates feminism by a few millennia.
  - GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago
    The presence of "harassing women" has not traditionally been in the category of "things a good person does not do".
    - alttab 12y ago
      Yes but the problem can be addressed without addressing sex.
      - GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago
        In some universe of pure forms, sure, but on the other hand: material reality.
  - scott_s 12y ago