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You don't have any knowledge at all about Tim or Jony's feelings towards developers that the rest of us don't have. Some counterpoints: Why does apple keep in

by gress 12y ago

You don't have any knowledge at all about Tim or Jony's feelings towards developers that the rest of us don't have. Some counterpoints: Why does apple keep investing in APIs for developers who they don't care about Why did Tim make a speech on stage at WWDC about how much they care about Developers. You seem to be directly accusing him of being a liar. Now, I actually agree with almost all of the linked post, and I am an iOS and Mac developer myself. Software has been devalued by the advertising supported models of the Internet changing people's expectations. That's the root problem, and it wasn't Apple's doing Could Apple do more to combat this? Yes, I think they could, and should, and I hope they will. But as long as you have their largest competitors doing everything they can to devalue software, you can't complain that Apple should be making sure their customers have to pay more. Let's also face another hard truth. There is a lot of software that just isn't that valuable. People are willing to pay money for things that a) make their life feel better, b) save them money, or c) help them make money. The vast majority of apps just don't do any of these things well enough to be worthwhile. If anything, consumers are spending too much money on worthless software.

lukifer 12y ago
Talk is cheap. What actions has Apple taken to demonstrate that they care about facilitating the businesses of developers using the App Stores? They've added APIs, tools, even a new language, but the only improvement I can think of for the App Stores is video preview. While it's not Apple's job to enable every possible business model under the sun, they ultimately hurt both themselves and users by trying to force everything into the "game vending machine" model, not to mention the app types which are forever excluded due to sandbox restrictions (see Panic's experience with the MAS, for example [1]). [1]: http://www.panic.com/blog/coda-2-5-and-the-mac-app-store/ http://www.panic.com/blog/coda-2-5-and-the-mac-app-store/
- vitd 12y ago
  Well one thing they’ve done is ensure that all apps are sandboxed so that I can be sure when my mother downloads an app, it’s not going to be a vector to infest her computer.
  - lukifer 12y ago
    Sandboxing is an excellent default, but the lack of permanent, specific exceptions when they're genuinely needed is what blocks whole categories of apps needlessly. (Your mother is probably not likely to download a pro FTP client.)
- gress 12y ago
  What suggestion for raising app revenue do you have that wouldn't put them at a disadvantage Google?
  - lukifer 12y ago
    It's not just about revenue, but about process. For instance, the delay on bug fix releases could still use a lot of improvement. (Disclaimer: I work in web-land, where a deploy time of more than 10 seconds is laughable.) But even just on the revenue metric, as mentioned in the article: - Trial periods (especially relevant for softare over 5-10 bucks). - Paid upgrades (many producers of high-end software can't be sustained with new purchases alone, and faking it with in-app purchases or "MyApp 2" is a terrible experience for everybody). - Permanent sandbox exceptions for apps that genuinely need them. - Lower the ridiculous, quasi-usurious 30% tax. I don't expect Apple to do this, but in the Mac realm where developers have other distribution options, the buying convenience and visibility may not be worth the revenue hit. If Apple has the cash to make iCloud a loss-leader for selling shiny gadgets (and they do), they can afford to make App Stores revenue-neutral or even a cost center. Note that every one of these deficiencies is a loss for developers and users alike.
    - gress 12y ago
      So you chose to ignore the 'not putting them at a disadvantage' point. Repeating the points from the linked article is not a contribution.
      - lukifer 12y ago
        I fail to see how any of the things I suggested put them at a disadvantage to Google, other than maybe lowering the 30% (and given that that the vast majority of Apple's revenue comes from hardware, I strongly doubt that it would be significant.)
        gress 12y ago
        All of those things make the average price of software go up. I realize that's desirable to developers (me included), but it would also tilt the overall market towards platforms where software is cheaper.

by gress 12y ago

lukifer 12y ago

Talk is cheap. What actions has Apple taken to demonstrate that they care about facilitating the businesses of developers using the App Stores? They've added APIs, tools, even a new language, but the only improvement I can think of for the App Stores is video preview. While it's not Apple's job to enable every possible business model under the sun, they ultimately hurt both themselves and users by trying to force everything into the "game vending machine" model, not to mention the app types which are forever excluded due to sandbox restrictions (see Panic's experience with the MAS, for example [1]). [1]: http://www.panic.com/blog/coda-2-5-and-the-mac-app-store/ http://www.panic.com/blog/coda-2-5-and-the-mac-app-store/

vitd 12y ago
Well one thing they’ve done is ensure that all apps are sandboxed so that I can be sure when my mother downloads an app, it’s not going to be a vector to infest her computer.
- lukifer 12y ago
  Sandboxing is an excellent default, but the lack of permanent, specific exceptions when they're genuinely needed is what blocks whole categories of apps needlessly. (Your mother is probably not likely to download a pro FTP client.)
gress 12y ago
What suggestion for raising app revenue do you have that wouldn't put them at a disadvantage Google?
- lukifer 12y ago
  It's not just about revenue, but about process. For instance, the delay on bug fix releases could still use a lot of improvement. (Disclaimer: I work in web-land, where a deploy time of more than 10 seconds is laughable.) But even just on the revenue metric, as mentioned in the article: - Trial periods (especially relevant for softare over 5-10 bucks). - Paid upgrades (many producers of high-end software can't be sustained with new purchases alone, and faking it with in-app purchases or "MyApp 2" is a terrible experience for everybody). - Permanent sandbox exceptions for apps that genuinely need them. - Lower the ridiculous, quasi-usurious 30% tax. I don't expect Apple to do this, but in the Mac realm where developers have other distribution options, the buying convenience and visibility may not be worth the revenue hit. If Apple has the cash to make iCloud a loss-leader for selling shiny gadgets (and they do), they can afford to make App Stores revenue-neutral or even a cost center. Note that every one of these deficiencies is a loss for developers and users alike.
  - gress 12y ago
    So you chose to ignore the 'not putting them at a disadvantage' point. Repeating the points from the linked article is not a contribution.
    - lukifer 12y ago
      I fail to see how any of the things I suggested put them at a disadvantage to Google, other than maybe lowering the 30% (and given that that the vast majority of Apple's revenue comes from hardware, I strongly doubt that it would be significant.)
      - gress 12y ago
        All of those things make the average price of software go up. I realize that's desirable to developers (me included), but it would also tilt the overall market towards platforms where software is cheaper.