5 ms·

Yeah I've heard total horror stories from women. It's like men on OKCupid took the idea of "numbers game" way, way too far. Consequently I also didn't want to

Yeah I've heard total horror stories from women. It's like men on OKCupid took the idea of "numbers game" way, way too far. Consequently I also didn't want to be on there and be lumped in with those guys either.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
- potatolicious 12y ago
  I don't think so. While most spammers aren't particularly sophisticated, it doesn't take a genius to figure out you can copy-paste formulaic messages to hundreds of women in only a few minutes. Even a user who isn't particularly nefarious and say, sends 20 original (not copy-pasted) messages each session, it's still an overwhelming amount of messages for women to sort through. It's important to note that when I say "spam" I don't just mean "bad actors who deliberately attempt to game the system". I mean that even what appears to a user as a "natural" amount of messages in fact makes the system nearly unusable. It's almost trivial for female users to end up with literally hundreds of messages per day - just managing the messages themselves is a chore, much less viewing the profiles associated.
Kalium 12y ago
Long story short, men discovered that being a well-behaved actor is a losing strategy on dating sites.
- shkkmo 12y ago
  Thanks for stereotyping me and grouping me with the worst actors in my gender.
  - Kalium 12y ago
    Speak for yourself. I, personally, discovered through direct and firsthand experience that being a well-behaved actor was a losing strategy. Then I stopped to think about it and understood why.
    - shkkmo 12y ago
      I did speak for myself, you were the one that presumed to speak for me.
      - Kalium 12y ago
        Excuse me. "Many men, though not all, because some Thing Differently, though judging by available statistics most..." Happy? Or would you prefer #NotAllMen?
        GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago
        Don't neg me, bro.
    - shkkmo 12y ago
      I think what you said in your reply works just fine: "I, personally, discovered..."
      - Kalium 12y ago
        I have no wish to go out of my way to discredit a valid observation about general behavior over a population so you can say #NotAllMen.
        shkkmo 12y ago
        Do you have any evidence that your behavior is typical of the population?
        insickness 12y ago
        > men discovered that being a well-behaved actor is a losing strategy on dating sites. The entire seduction and pickup community is based on the idea that women say they want a guy who's nice and plays by the rules but that that isn't what they respond to. They respond to assholes, bad-boys and dominant men. Obviously not every woman, but there are plenty of independent scientific studies to support this theory.
  - shkkmo 12y ago
    Why does taking offense at the assertion that all or most men spam women on online dating sites deserve down votes?
    - shkkmo 12y ago
      So I went and googled this "#NotAllMen" tag you keep mentioning (I don't use twitter). The "but we're not all like that" response is inappropriate and unhelpful when one is talking about particular bad actors, a group of bad actors or even about a general form of behavior. However, when the statements are of the general form about the group as a whole, I think it is a perfectly appropriate response. If you say "All men are misogynists" saying "no we aren't" is perfectly valid, so is taking offense to the statement. Now if you have evidence that your assertion applies to the majority of men on dating sites, feel free to post it. Then at least your stereotype will be an evidence backed one.
- orangecat 12y ago
  A seemingly obvious solution is to limit the number of women that men can contact, something like 2 every 24 hours. That way men are incentivized to put some effort into their messages, and women actually have an opportunity to read them due to reduced spam. It should be a win-win for everyone except the spammers, but I haven't heard of any sites that do it.
  - Kalium 12y ago
    Now I have N accounts and message whoever I like with those N accounts. Basically, a site has to offer something to both women and men to do better than OKC. That proposal just puts a minor speed bump in front of men. As a group, men have few compunctions about abusing sites in order to get what they want. Multiple accounts to spam women is not a significant obstacle.
    - orbitur 12y ago
      > Now I have N accounts and message whoever I like with those N accounts. And now you have to work harder to manage that, reducing the probability that you'll be doing it.
      - Kalium 12y ago
        Nah. Someone writes a script. It becomes a browser extension. Now it's zero work. Women abandon your site, because the experience is no better than OKCupid. Men follow suit, because they tend to go where the women are. Basically, your approach is the functional equivalent of DRM. With all the problems that go with that.
        orbitur 12y ago
        That still takes effort beyond just signing up. I think you're overestimating the willingness of the average guy to either script something up or go out of his way to find a browser extension. Most people's knowledge of browser extensions begins and ends with AdBlock anyway.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

potatolicious 12y ago
I don't think so. While most spammers aren't particularly sophisticated, it doesn't take a genius to figure out you can copy-paste formulaic messages to hundreds of women in only a few minutes. Even a user who isn't particularly nefarious and say, sends 20 original (not copy-pasted) messages each session, it's still an overwhelming amount of messages for women to sort through. It's important to note that when I say "spam" I don't just mean "bad actors who deliberately attempt to game the system". I mean that even what appears to a user as a "natural" amount of messages in fact makes the system nearly unusable. It's almost trivial for female users to end up with literally hundreds of messages per day - just managing the messages themselves is a chore, much less viewing the profiles associated.

Kalium 12y ago

Long story short, men discovered that being a well-behaved actor is a losing strategy on dating sites.

shkkmo 12y ago
Thanks for stereotyping me and grouping me with the worst actors in my gender.
- Kalium 12y ago
  Speak for yourself. I, personally, discovered through direct and firsthand experience that being a well-behaved actor was a losing strategy. Then I stopped to think about it and understood why.
  - shkkmo 12y ago
    I did speak for myself, you were the one that presumed to speak for me.
    - Kalium 12y ago
      Excuse me. "Many men, though not all, because some Thing Differently, though judging by available statistics most..." Happy? Or would you prefer #NotAllMen?
      - GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago
        Don't neg me, bro.
  - shkkmo 12y ago
    I think what you said in your reply works just fine: "I, personally, discovered..."
    - Kalium 12y ago
      I have no wish to go out of my way to discredit a valid observation about general behavior over a population so you can say #NotAllMen.
      - shkkmo 12y ago
        Do you have any evidence that your behavior is typical of the population?
        insickness 12y ago
        > men discovered that being a well-behaved actor is a losing strategy on dating sites. The entire seduction and pickup community is based on the idea that women say they want a guy who's nice and plays by the rules but that that isn't what they respond to. They respond to assholes, bad-boys and dominant men. Obviously not every woman, but there are plenty of independent scientific studies to support this theory.
- shkkmo 12y ago
  Why does taking offense at the assertion that all or most men spam women on online dating sites deserve down votes?
  - shkkmo 12y ago
    So I went and googled this "#NotAllMen" tag you keep mentioning (I don't use twitter). The "but we're not all like that" response is inappropriate and unhelpful when one is talking about particular bad actors, a group of bad actors or even about a general form of behavior. However, when the statements are of the general form about the group as a whole, I think it is a perfectly appropriate response. If you say "All men are misogynists" saying "no we aren't" is perfectly valid, so is taking offense to the statement. Now if you have evidence that your assertion applies to the majority of men on dating sites, feel free to post it. Then at least your stereotype will be an evidence backed one.
orangecat 12y ago
A seemingly obvious solution is to limit the number of women that men can contact, something like 2 every 24 hours. That way men are incentivized to put some effort into their messages, and women actually have an opportunity to read them due to reduced spam. It should be a win-win for everyone except the spammers, but I haven't heard of any sites that do it.
- Kalium 12y ago
  Now I have N accounts and message whoever I like with those N accounts. Basically, a site has to offer something to both women and men to do better than OKC. That proposal just puts a minor speed bump in front of men. As a group, men have few compunctions about abusing sites in order to get what they want. Multiple accounts to spam women is not a significant obstacle.
  - orbitur 12y ago
    > Now I have N accounts and message whoever I like with those N accounts. And now you have to work harder to manage that, reducing the probability that you'll be doing it.
    - Kalium 12y ago
      Nah. Someone writes a script. It becomes a browser extension. Now it's zero work. Women abandon your site, because the experience is no better than OKCupid. Men follow suit, because they tend to go where the women are. Basically, your approach is the functional equivalent of DRM. With all the problems that go with that.
      - orbitur 12y ago
        That still takes effort beyond just signing up. I think you're overestimating the willingness of the average guy to either script something up or go out of his way to find a browser extension. Most people's knowledge of browser extensions begins and ends with AdBlock anyway.