4 ms·

People have been saying that for hundreds of years. But it hasn't happened yet. Repeating the same trope isn't helpful or informative. See, for example, http:/

by mjt0229 12y ago

People have been saying that for hundreds of years. But it hasn't happened yet. Repeating the same trope isn't helpful or informative. See, for example, http://properdiscord.com/2014/07/22/scott-timberg-ive-got-a-bone-to-pick-with-you/ http://properdiscord.com/2014/07/22/scott-timberg-ive-got-a-... There are many other similar posts, all full of facts, on this blog. Alex Ross himself has written on the subject.

yardie 12y ago
Let me repeat that again. Classical orchestral music is in a death spiral. The audience is getting older and their tastes haven't changed. Yes you can listen to the same 9 Beethoven symphonies on Spotify by the Hungarian symphony orchestra in 1989. No one disputes that Now, name a modern, orchestra composer who's work you've listened to (excluding motion picture soundtracks)? Now, imagine if rock music stopped at Pink Floyd's The Wall. Ticket sales don't lie. Symphonies are shutting down all over the country.
- mjt0229 12y ago
  I'll bite. Thomas Ades is making astounding music today. So is John Luther Adams, and Nico Muhly. I've enjoyed works by Mason Bates, Andrew Leshnoff, Yehudi Wyner, and others. Just because you haven't heard of them doesn't mean that they don't exist. Some symphonies are shutting down, but the Chicago Symphony just announced increases in ticket sales and attendance. Excitement over my local orchestra, the Seattle Symphony, is increased in recent years since they hired a new music director and commissioned a Pulitzer-prize winning piece by John Luther Adams.
  - muraiki 12y ago
    I heard Mason Bates for the first time this year with the Pittsburgh Symphony, where he is the Composer of the Year. He performed "Rusty Air in Carolina." When I read about the piece before the concert I was skeptical, as combining electronic instruments with an orchestra is not something I'm generally fond of (disclaimer: I used to make electronic music, albeit poorly). However, I ended up mesmerized and loved it! For me, I think my concern about modern composers is that I associate them with highly dissonant or atonal music... I realize those are problematic descriptions, but I don't know the right terminology. Now, I do like atonal music to some degree -- I play the shakuhachi; perhaps honkyoku could be lumped into "atonal" somehow -- but encountering it at a concert where it wasn't the main draw for me is not always the most exciting experience, especially if I'm bringing someone who isn't into classical music and now they have to hear something that sounds like violins dying for 20 minutes (disclaimer two: I love Takemitsu's November Steps, which has violins that sound like they're dying). I'm not saying that older music is objectively better or something like that, but I think it's not hard to argue that for many people it's a bit more approachable. As such, I think that artists who can write works that span between the old and new, such as in the case of Mason Bates' piece, will be critical in bringing in new audience members.
- visarga 12y ago
  > Now, name a modern, orchestra composer who's work you've listened to (excluding motion picture soundtracks)? Alan Hovhaness: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nG_gAMwGG-Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nG_gAMwGG-Q
  - mjt0229 12y ago
    Sadly, RIP. But one of my favorites!!!
- KC8ZKF 12y ago
  Phillip Glass
  - mjt0229 12y ago
    Definitely. I was also going to add Steve Reich, although his music is mostly not what you'd call "orchestral". But you could add Jonny Greenwood, Krystof Penderecki, George Benjamin, and more, and more. It's such a tragedy to see classical music as being "Beethoven or film scores". There are great modern recordings of Beethoven by good orchestras, too, and I'm as excited to hear a fresh new recording of Beethoven as I was when I discovered that Augustin Hadelich had recorded the Ades violin concerto (there are now three recordings of this marvelous work).
- CocaKoala 12y ago
  >excluding motion picture soundtracks Why are we excluding motion picture soundtracks?
- adamdavis 12y ago
  While I can name several modern classical composers whom I interested in* I think your point still stands and most people wouldn't be able to name an active composer after Beethoven, maybe Brahms. I have brief memories of an interview with Milton Babbitt about how classical music was no doubt on the way out due to advent of popular music, and i think he was right, these days classical music is only relevant in most peoples lives when mentioning an anecdote about how making their newborn listen to Mozart might increase their IQ. Whenever I would go to a chamber music event or an orchestral performance there will generally be two sets of people there - the old school bougie folk and a handful of conservatory students - the casual audience member is far and few between. Orchestras will have a better chance getting an audience by performing pops or some program full of video game music. Still, going to the symphony hall, being part of that scene, this might retain it's importance for the upper class / professionals, and this alone could be enough to continue to support more than a handful of orchestras around the United States. * And the only reason I can is because I studied composition and theory at University.

by mjt0229 12y ago

yardie 12y ago

Let me repeat that again. Classical orchestral music is in a death spiral. The audience is getting older and their tastes haven't changed. Yes you can listen to the same 9 Beethoven symphonies on Spotify by the Hungarian symphony orchestra in 1989. No one disputes that Now, name a modern, orchestra composer who's work you've listened to (excluding motion picture soundtracks)? Now, imagine if rock music stopped at Pink Floyd's The Wall. Ticket sales don't lie. Symphonies are shutting down all over the country.

mjt0229 12y ago
I'll bite. Thomas Ades is making astounding music today. So is John Luther Adams, and Nico Muhly. I've enjoyed works by Mason Bates, Andrew Leshnoff, Yehudi Wyner, and others. Just because you haven't heard of them doesn't mean that they don't exist. Some symphonies are shutting down, but the Chicago Symphony just announced increases in ticket sales and attendance. Excitement over my local orchestra, the Seattle Symphony, is increased in recent years since they hired a new music director and commissioned a Pulitzer-prize winning piece by John Luther Adams.
- muraiki 12y ago
  I heard Mason Bates for the first time this year with the Pittsburgh Symphony, where he is the Composer of the Year. He performed "Rusty Air in Carolina." When I read about the piece before the concert I was skeptical, as combining electronic instruments with an orchestra is not something I'm generally fond of (disclaimer: I used to make electronic music, albeit poorly). However, I ended up mesmerized and loved it! For me, I think my concern about modern composers is that I associate them with highly dissonant or atonal music... I realize those are problematic descriptions, but I don't know the right terminology. Now, I do like atonal music to some degree -- I play the shakuhachi; perhaps honkyoku could be lumped into "atonal" somehow -- but encountering it at a concert where it wasn't the main draw for me is not always the most exciting experience, especially if I'm bringing someone who isn't into classical music and now they have to hear something that sounds like violins dying for 20 minutes (disclaimer two: I love Takemitsu's November Steps, which has violins that sound like they're dying). I'm not saying that older music is objectively better or something like that, but I think it's not hard to argue that for many people it's a bit more approachable. As such, I think that artists who can write works that span between the old and new, such as in the case of Mason Bates' piece, will be critical in bringing in new audience members.
visarga 12y ago
> Now, name a modern, orchestra composer who's work you've listened to (excluding motion picture soundtracks)? Alan Hovhaness: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nG_gAMwGG-Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nG_gAMwGG-Q
- mjt0229 12y ago
  Sadly, RIP. But one of my favorites!!!
KC8ZKF 12y ago
Phillip Glass
- mjt0229 12y ago
  Definitely. I was also going to add Steve Reich, although his music is mostly not what you'd call "orchestral". But you could add Jonny Greenwood, Krystof Penderecki, George Benjamin, and more, and more. It's such a tragedy to see classical music as being "Beethoven or film scores". There are great modern recordings of Beethoven by good orchestras, too, and I'm as excited to hear a fresh new recording of Beethoven as I was when I discovered that Augustin Hadelich had recorded the Ades violin concerto (there are now three recordings of this marvelous work).
CocaKoala 12y ago
>excluding motion picture soundtracks Why are we excluding motion picture soundtracks?
adamdavis 12y ago
While I can name several modern classical composers whom I interested in* I think your point still stands and most people wouldn't be able to name an active composer after Beethoven, maybe Brahms. I have brief memories of an interview with Milton Babbitt about how classical music was no doubt on the way out due to advent of popular music, and i think he was right, these days classical music is only relevant in most peoples lives when mentioning an anecdote about how making their newborn listen to Mozart might increase their IQ. Whenever I would go to a chamber music event or an orchestral performance there will generally be two sets of people there - the old school bougie folk and a handful of conservatory students - the casual audience member is far and few between. Orchestras will have a better chance getting an audience by performing pops or some program full of video game music. Still, going to the symphony hall, being part of that scene, this might retain it's importance for the upper class / professionals, and this alone could be enough to continue to support more than a handful of orchestras around the United States. * And the only reason I can is because I studied composition and theory at University.