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What's interesting to me, in addition to the obvious major point, is how this process is taught: in private seminars. I have seen this in other areas involving
by diydsp 12y ago
What's interesting to me, in addition to the obvious major point, is how this process is taught: in private seminars.
I have seen this in other areas involving questionable practices, especially involving law enforcement. Training agencies put together professional seminars- just as any of us might take a programming seminar- and teach lessons that "improve" the officers' skills, but at the same time, in the privacy of the seminar, strain the boundaries of what's legal.
That's the part that I find fascinating. In contrast to larger-scale fascist movements, in which anti-national behavior is spread from the top-down (I'm thinking of slave-era American and modern Arabic racism here or the classic example of Nazism), this type of nation- and rights-destroying behavior emanates from numerous, distributed "educational facilities."
It's fascinating to me because there's no single identifiable point to put the finger of blame on, because the erosion happens so gradually, the damages to the common good take place in such tiny increments and because it's not motivated by a common, uniting goal (although law enforcement is the simulacrum), but by numerous distributed organizations motivated by making cash via the trainings and who motivate the participants the same way. It's as if multi-level marketing were getting applied to professional gang-banger training.
And through the logic of "training seminar," why exactly not produce week-long seminars in gang-banging? It's not illegal to teach people how to break the law, there is a need in the form of customers who want to know how to do it and there is money to be made in educating others in the arts of carjacking, robbery and drug sales using slides, role-playing and case studies. It is up to the customer whether or not to make use of the information...
One final point is that there is an implied escalation of consent in the "professional" veneer of the "training seminar." This happens due to our assumptions that 1. spending money on a seminar results in at least some useful information 2. information learned in a private seminar is not expected to be unethical or useless. This leads to training seminars on law enforcement (and several other topics) operating as an "offshore zone" where unacceptable behavior gets legitimized: The police chief could never train their officers to perform manipulative, borderline illegal practices, but he can easily sign off on a training where these practices occur and become part of their department[s repertoire. The kinds of conversations and education that could never take place in a public-supported institution such as a police station can easily happen outside the publicly-supported sphere, in the conference room of a hotel, led by a small, scarcely memorable, unaccountable training organization.
- pixl97 12y ago>It's not illegal to teach people how to break the law I'm sorry, do not pass go, do not collect $200, go straight to jail. https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130908/00044524444/eight-months-jail-teaching-people-how-to-pass-lie-detector-test.shtml https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130908/00044524444/eight... http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/09/09/polygraph_countermeasures_man_jailed/ http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/09/09/polygraph_countermea... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6308878 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6308878
- chillingeffect 12y ago> I'm sorry, do not pass go, do not collect $200, go straight to jail. That's a disproportionate amount of bluster given that 1. That was a single counterexample. 2. The article you posted says: Federal District Judge Liam O’Grady said: "There’s nothing unlawful about maybe 95 per cent of the business he [Dixon] conducted” but found criminal fault in his willingness to assist would-be applicants and others to lie to federal agencies, the Washington Post reported. In other words, the polygraph-beating information was not illegal, but he was prosecuted for helping people lie to federal agencies (a crime itself). Undercover agents ensnared him via a technicality. But if the class were restricted to polygraph-beating, without persuading students to lie to federales, he wouldn't have served his relatively minor sentence of 8 months. Contrast one guy going to jail for 8 months with the hundreds of millions of dollars seized from people not charged with crimes in the original article. Consider the zillions of materials and resources available for learning to assault someone, to hack into computer systems, to break locks, websites on "how to rob someone" (google it) and make explosives and the distinction is clear.
- pixl97 12y agoThat is a single counterexample simply because I decided to post a single one. Working in the firearms industry for years has shown me that if the ATF/FBI don't like what you are doing they can legally make your life hell. 'Someone' makes an anonymous tip, judge rubber stamps a warrant to search all your premises. Two parts from unrelated weapons in the same building, conspiracy to build a machine gun. What you don't understand is, you don't understand the full technicalities of the law and your adversary does. Does it really matter if they don't convict you in the end if you exhaust all your resources fighting them on lawyers?