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Beethoven transformed music, but has veneration of him stifled his successors?
- yardie 12y ago"Classical" orchestral music is in a death spiral. And I'm not sure how it can be avoided except through government endowments. Most orchestral nonprofits live and die on donations. The donors are moneyed and old. And they want to hear Beethoven. The next generation of potential patrons are not so young and not moneyed. And have a different taste in music.
- sveme 12y agoA counterpoint. You're describing the American situation. Most (central?) European orchestras are at least partially publicly funded and therefore relatively stable. As they do not rely solely on donation (by old farts as you imply), they are able to experiment far more and also provide a stage for new composers, new works. Same for opera houses. As they are modernizing the interpretations of symphonies and especially the screenplay in operas, they become politically and socially relevant again. There is little worse than enduring a ballet in the style of the 19th century, but watching a modern piece can be a really great experience. So government endowments enable orchestras to experiment and hence stay relevant. Without those your analysis is spot on.
- vixin 12y agoEach to their own. I find it depressing to watch yet another clueless director desperately trying to make his reputation as a 'fresh talent in opera' with a stage littered with the paraphernalia of modern life and a cast dressed in track and business suits. We can look forward to space suits I suppose or maybe no clothes at all. Are we too dumb to look beyond our own era?
- yardie 12y agoHere is this seasons concert line up for the 2 operas[1] (Garnier and Bastille) in Paris: Rachmaninov, Schubert, Schonberg, Brahms, Beethoven (x6!), Mahler, Herrman, Barber, Mozart, Rota, Dvorak, Lekeu, Chausson, DeBussy I'm not familiar with some of the names. I think Rota is a modern composer. But most of those names are composers who have been buried. [1] http://www.operadeparis.fr/en http://www.operadeparis.fr/en
- masklinn 12y agoBarber, Copland, Rota and Herrman are more modern than the others, but still buried. The Beethoven situation is a bit of an exception as they're doing a series with all 9 symphonies in a row. And I see a few more composers in http://www.operadeparis.fr/en/saison-2014-2015/concert--recital http://www.operadeparis.fr/en/saison-2014-2015/concert--reci... * Barber (1910-1981) * Beethoven (1770-1827) * Brahms (1833-1897) * Chausson (1855-1899) * Copland (1900-1990) * Dvořák (1841-1904) * Herrman (1911-1975) * Lekeu (1870-1894) * Mahler (1860-1911) * Mozart (1756-1791) * Praetorius (1571-1621) * Prokofiev (1891-1953) * Rachmaninov (1873-1943) * Ravel (1875-1937) * Rota (1911-1979) * Schubert (1797-1828) * Schönberg (1875-1951) * Spohr (1784-1859) * Strauss (1864-1949) * Suk (1874-1935) * Susato (1500-1561) * Tarrega (1852-1909) * Verdi (1813-1901)
- leoc 12y agoIf what you want is state-funded or charitably-funded institutions commissioning and performing new art music without reference to audience tastes, well, that's already been tried: see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darmst%C3%A4dter_Ferienkurse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darmst%C3%A4dter_Ferienkurse and so on. The results are generally considered to have been mostly not a success, both in terms of attracting an audience and of the quality of the music itself. The author of the Beethoven article happens to have written a book http://www.amazon.com/The-Rest-Noise-Listening-Twentieth/dp/0312427719/ http://www.amazon.com/The-Rest-Noise-Listening-Twentieth/dp/... which covers this among other things.
- thewarrior 12y agoPeople do seem to still enjoy listening to Hans Zimmer style BWAAAAAAAAH stuff so maybe its not totally in decline.
- hkmurakami 12y agoFor that reason, I find that the Romantic composers (Tchaikovsky, Rachmaninoff, et. al.) are a great segway, since their compositions are highly dynamic, powerful, and emotional.
- patrickk 12y agoTime by Hans Zimmer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxabLA7UQ9k http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxabLA7UQ9k Powerful stuff. Maybe Beethoven would've been a movie composer if he was alive in the modern era.
- waterlesscloud 12y agoI've been attending orchestral concerts in the US for three decades now, and the entire time people have said that Beethoven et al were going to die out with the new generation.
- danieltillett 12y agoAll that will happen is people will no longer be able to make a living being a musician in a big name orchestra. Classical music will go on, musicians who love playing will keep playing, and audiences will keep listening. The only thing missing will be the money.
- jiggy2011 12y agoOrchestras are pretty expensive.
- danieltillett 12y agoThey used to be a lot smaller and cheaper - they have become massive because they need to be able to fill enormous halls. If the money goes then we will lose the huge performances, but live classical music won’t die.
- frik 12y agoMany movie & TV composers already use virtual instruments for years - it's cost efficient and flexible.
- leoc 12y agoThe string quartet is the defining example of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baumol%27s_cost_disease https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baumol%27s_cost_disease .
- JoeAltmaier 12y agoWell, death spiral is harsh. Sure orchestras are closing up shop. But as described, they were being propped up unnaturally. They could play something else! If nobody goes to the classical music shows, then they're putting on the wrong kind of shows. I'm glad to see musicians continue to be employed because it makes the world a better place. But the 'classical music' cult was weird. It's like the State Fair tap-dancing talent competition. Why is it there? Because they've always done it. Not really a spectator sport, but folks spend 10000 hour getting good at it anyway. I'm not going to cry over the 'death spiral' of tap-dancing either.
- visarga 12y agoSo, basically, classical music or tap dancing it's all the same to you. I get it.
- JoeAltmaier 12y agoOh don't be such a pedant. Its a metaphor or whatever - only the cult of classical music appreciates it, and they're not enough to keep expensive orchestras afloat. Like other obscure and nearly extinct art forms.
- mjt0229 12y agoPeople have been saying that for hundreds of years. But it hasn't happened yet. Repeating the same trope isn't helpful or informative. See, for example, http://properdiscord.com/2014/07/22/scott-timberg-ive-got-a-bone-to-pick-with-you/ http://properdiscord.com/2014/07/22/scott-timberg-ive-got-a-... There are many other similar posts, all full of facts, on this blog. Alex Ross himself has written on the subject.
- yardie 12y agoLet me repeat that again. Classical orchestral music is in a death spiral. The audience is getting older and their tastes haven't changed. Yes you can listen to the same 9 Beethoven symphonies on Spotify by the Hungarian symphony orchestra in 1989. No one disputes that Now, name a modern, orchestra composer who's work you've listened to (excluding motion picture soundtracks)? Now, imagine if rock music stopped at Pink Floyd's The Wall. Ticket sales don't lie. Symphonies are shutting down all over the country.
- mjt0229 12y agoI'll bite. Thomas Ades is making astounding music today. So is John Luther Adams, and Nico Muhly. I've enjoyed works by Mason Bates, Andrew Leshnoff, Yehudi Wyner, and others. Just because you haven't heard of them doesn't mean that they don't exist. Some symphonies are shutting down, but the Chicago Symphony just announced increases in ticket sales and attendance. Excitement over my local orchestra, the Seattle Symphony, is increased in recent years since they hired a new music director and commissioned a Pulitzer-prize winning piece by John Luther Adams.
- muraiki 12y agoI heard Mason Bates for the first time this year with the Pittsburgh Symphony, where he is the Composer of the Year. He performed "Rusty Air in Carolina." When I read about the piece before the concert I was skeptical, as combining electronic instruments with an orchestra is not something I'm generally fond of (disclaimer: I used to make electronic music, albeit poorly). However, I ended up mesmerized and loved it! For me, I think my concern about modern composers is that I associate them with highly dissonant or atonal music... I realize those are problematic descriptions, but I don't know the right terminology. Now, I do like atonal music to some degree -- I play the shakuhachi; perhaps honkyoku could be lumped into "atonal" somehow -- but encountering it at a concert where it wasn't the main draw for me is not always the most exciting experience, especially if I'm bringing someone who isn't into classical music and now they have to hear something that sounds like violins dying for 20 minutes (disclaimer two: I love Takemitsu's November Steps, which has violins that sound like they're dying). I'm not saying that older music is objectively better or something like that, but I think it's not hard to argue that for many people it's a bit more approachable. As such, I think that artists who can write works that span between the old and new, such as in the case of Mason Bates' piece, will be critical in bringing in new audience members.
- saturdaysaint 12y agoCompletely wrong. Streaming music services have added a convenience factor to pop music enjoyment, but they've made exploring the complete repertoire orders of magnitude easier and more rewarding. I've listened to music in the last few years that would have cost me tens of thousands of dollars to listen to even a half decade ago (music pirating outlets were miles away from what Spotify/Rdio can do). I believe that in a world where the 3 minute radio-friendly song is an artifact of a bygone era and the constraints of physical media are gone, there will be a major resurgence of interest in epic, complex works of music. Just as Netflix has made psychologically complex, extremely long TV series much more central to our culture, I think people will start to gravitate to headier music that was constrained by yesterday's media.
- rpenm 12y agoThe title here is a canard. The article does not explore the question of Beethoven's impact on his successors, it is taken for granted. This piece reviews a bunch of recent books about Beethoven (mostly concerning his personal, political and artistic life, not his legacy).
- leoc 12y agoEspecially since the influence of Beethoven probably dominates classical music much less now, after the enthronement of Bach, the rediscovery of Vivaldi and the whole Baroque and early-music revival, than it did in the nineteenth century when classical music was still (and maybe increasingly?) a popular and commercial hit.
- donatj 12y agoI would argue Philip Glass as being as important as Beethoven to music but I'm probably in the minority here.
- frik 12y agoI like his well known Pruit Igoe/Koyaanisqatsi music (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nq_SpRBXRmE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nq_SpRBXRmE). But his recent work for a local small opera house named "Kepler" is off-putting (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_Fh2TmHZyk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_Fh2TmHZyk).
- visarga 12y agoThey are important even with limited public success. There is a lot of interesting contemporary classical music, but much of it requires a formed ear to appreciate. More accessible classical music usually comes from composers dead 100+ years ago in the Classical and Romantic periods. All styles: Baroque, Classical, Romantic, Modern and Contemporary bring something to the table, but some of them are too elevated for the general public, just like not the finer points of functional programming not being every developer's cup of tea. I wouldn't want advanced programming paradigms or exotic new math stop being produced just because the general public doesn't have a taste for them.
- Tycho 12y agoWhy there are no Bachs, Mozarts or Beethovens of today is to me one of the world's greatest mysteries.
- JoeAltmaier 12y agoThey're not writing classical music. But I'm sure they exist. David Bowie was amazingly inventive. Other examples?
- Tycho 12y agoDavid Bowie is great, but if you were to catalogue his output, abilities, and achievements I think they would pale severely in comparison to Mozart. I can believe that music is overall just as great as ever, with the millions of contributors globally, but where are the towering geniuses?
- JoeAltmaier 12y agoI think that's not true. Its nice to extoll Mozart but their catalog might be commensurate, you'd have to do the legwork. I say, geniuses are all around us but we're acculturated to say 'the old masters can't be beat' without actually adding it up.
- Tycho 12y agoThe 'Complete Mozart' collection is like 180 discs. And he died age 35!
- vidarh 12y agoAnd most of it is not remembered by even most of those who likes his music. The reason his output is so huge is of course because he for several periods was employed as a composer and had to churn out large number of compositions. That's not to say that there's not lots of good material there, but it's not like his entire output is of sufficient quality to keep most people interested.
- msluyter 12y agoYet the idolatry has had a stifling effect on subsequent generations of composers, who must compete on a playing field that was designed to prolong Beethoven’s glory. Odd that the article doesn't leverage much evidence to support this point. However, we do have some excellent examples, notably Brahms, who wrote to a friend: "I shall never compose a Symphony! You have no conception of how the likes of us feel when we hear the tramp of a giant like him behind us." ("Him" being Beethoven.) And indeed, he didn't complete his first symphony until age 40.
- quarterwave 12y agoIn south Indian classical (Carnatic) music the greatest modern composer is Tyagaraja (1767-1847), who interestingly was a contemporary of Beethoven. Tyagaraja was prolific in a form of composition called a kriti, at once both structured as well as intense. The kriti eventually led to the modern Carnatic concert format, in the early twentieth century. Where concerts once used to be night-long expositions of virtuosity in rural temple festivals, the modern concert became a brisk 2 hour affair that catered to urban schedules. A couple of 'heavy' abstract pieces, then a few kritis serving as anchor, rounded off with several light blitz pieces (usually scorned by the cognoscenti).