4 ms·

I find it fascinating that despite not having the house+back yard that many Americans strive for, the Spanish are happier with their housing situations than we

I find it fascinating that despite not having the house+back yard that many Americans strive for, the Spanish are happier with their housing situations than we are. As a recently minted homeowner myself, I must say I can see the attraction of apartment living more than I could before. This house is a lot nicer and bigger than our apartment was, but damned if I'm not having to replace the sewer line, the patio, and various other things, despite having had inspections beforehand. The less you own, the less there is to go wrong.

toqueteos 12y ago
Happier? Don't get it wrong, people here can't afford other thing. Those who live in "house+back yard" style houses bought it decades ago or inherited from their parents.
- YokoZar 12y ago
  Happier in terms of a higher rate of "satisfaction with current living situation"
outside1234 12y ago
Because they are a really social society, the Spanish think of their neighbors as an asset not a liability and they also highly value being within walking distance to social meeting places like bars and restaurants (which encourages higher density housing). Then there is the cultural aspect of being owners not renters as the article goes into in detail.
- omegaworks 12y ago
  I think this is a chicken+egg kind of issue. Denser cities in general happen to have highly valued social meeting places.
- fesja 12y ago
  I'm a Spaniard and I can't agree more!! Yes, we love to be near bars, restaurants, terraces, small-medium supermarkets you can buy fresh food daily, use public transportation instead of depending on the car, have nearby parks to play sports, good public schools... Also usually our family and friends live nearby. That's very important for us. Also, many people used to choose their apartment in a walking distance from their job (traditionally there is few movement of workers, people usually stay many years on the same company). It's way different than USA (except NY or SF maybe). Not better nor worse, just different :)
  - RodericDay 12y ago
    It sounds like Montreal, too. I miss it.
- candeira 12y ago
  As a Spaniard now living in the inner suburbs of Melbourne, I have a good view into both ways of living. My wife likes to say that we live closer to shops than she's ever lived, and farther from shops than I've ever lived.
- FranOntanaya 12y ago
  Walking distance -- huge asset, even if a lot of spaniards still try to take their air conditioned car (it can get hot out there.) Neighbors as an asset... not so much. Some neighbors are nice, some are noisy, don't pay the communal expenses, quarrel a lot or fry sardines under your laundry lines. But crime is not a big issue, so in general you don't have to be afraid of your neighbors.
Swizec 12y ago
> I find it fascinating that despite not having the house+back yard that many Americans strive for As someone who spent the majority of their early childhood (ages 3 to 9) in such a house, then lived in an apartment in a city (without an elevator on top floor), I never understood why anyone would want a house. What do you even do with that much space? I live in a very comfortable 52m^2 (560 ft^2) studio and I don't have enough stuff to fill even half the storage space. Sure the kitchen is a bit small, and I guess the bathroom could be slightly more comfortable, but you can solve those with a bigger apartment; a house adds whole extra rooms. Seriously, what do people do with that much room? Granted if you have a kid and a spouse you'd want something more than a studio, but my mum's apartment is about the same size as my studio and was a 2-bedroom. The three of us (mum, sis, and me) lived there for 15 years together and we were perfectly fine. Hell even when it was four of us (dad as well) and we lived in that giant house, we only really lived on ground floor, which was essentially a 2-bedroom apartment, and the attic and basement were pretty much empty and/or filled with a bunch of junk. From the best of my observation, houses are expensive, take up a lot of time, and largely empty/useless.
- willyt 12y ago
  I'd be happy in a flat or a house. The right space is more important. I live in a small 2 bedroom house and I wish I just had a tiny 2m square study, somewhere which was my own space where I could e.g. safely leave my soldering iron set up and my kids wouldn't mess with it. Also my kids share a room and they don't have enough space to play Lego without having to put it away at the end of the day. I would really like it if they could have thier own rooms or a small playroom. I'm pretty sure this is not good for them or me. Also a utility room for the washing.
  - Swizec 12y ago
    >Also my kids share a room and they don't have enough space to play Lego without having to put it away at the end of the day Having a safe spot for the soldering iron sounds like a good idea, but as far as putting away legos goes ... do you really want to teach your kids not to clean up after themselves? Those sorts of habits spill over. Always putting things in their rightful place has been one of the most important lessons I've ever learned. That way your place is always tidy and you never have to explicitly do any tidying up.
Dewie 12y ago
> I find it fascinating that despite not having the house+back yard that many Americans strive for, the Spanish are happier with their housing situations than we are. Why would American standards matter to how satisfied Spaniards are? This sentence in isolation seems weird. Is there a wider context?
- rjdagost 12y ago
  The wider context is that in any post about any topic someone at HN finds a way to take a shot at something American.
- jamesaguilar 12y ago
  I'm puzzled at why it seems strange to you. I find the differences between cultures interesting, and I am led to believe this is a fairly common fascination.
  - Dewie 12y ago
    > I find it fascinating that despite not having the house+back yard that many Americans strive for, Frames it as if the Spanish have failed (therefore also actively tried) to achieve this American ideal. Overall, despite not having what some other culture have ... they are still happier, doesn't come off as curiosity about other cultures. It comes off as a surprise that other cultures are happier supposedly despite having tried to emulate that other culture, which is seemingly the gold standard. It's a very subjective interpretation anyway, and you'll just say that it's a false impression.
jseliger 12y ago
I find it fascinating that despite not having the house+back yard that many Americans strive for I too find it fascinating and I too live in a large apartment building, but a lot of other Americans would too if it were legal to build those apartment buildings. Matt Yglesias explains why in The Rent is Too Damn High (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0078XGJXO?tag=thstsst-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957 http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0078XGJXO?tag=thstsst-20&linkCode=...), but the short version is that cities forbid taller buildings through height restrictions and parking minimums in order to protect the property values of existing owners by limiting housing supply.
girvo 12y ago
I recently moved into a 1bdr apartment here in Brisbane, right in the city centre, and I absolutely love it. I've sold my car, as everything is walking distance (aside from the Gold Coast, which I catch a train to get to), and my neighbours are all awesome people -- they had a housewarming party for me! On the other hand, I don't have a family to raise, and while its very big (big lounge, a huge balcony looking over the city, two-entrace bathroom) if that was the case I could see why others would choose a house; here in Brisbane, the apartments that are big enough for a family either don't exist or do but are more expensive than renting a house anyway.

toqueteos 12y ago

Happier? Don't get it wrong, people here can't afford other thing. Those who live in "house+back yard" style houses bought it decades ago or inherited from their parents.

YokoZar 12y ago
Happier in terms of a higher rate of "satisfaction with current living situation"

outside1234 12y ago

Because they are a really social society, the Spanish think of their neighbors as an asset not a liability and they also highly value being within walking distance to social meeting places like bars and restaurants (which encourages higher density housing). Then there is the cultural aspect of being owners not renters as the article goes into in detail.

omegaworks 12y ago
I think this is a chicken+egg kind of issue. Denser cities in general happen to have highly valued social meeting places.
fesja 12y ago
I'm a Spaniard and I can't agree more!! Yes, we love to be near bars, restaurants, terraces, small-medium supermarkets you can buy fresh food daily, use public transportation instead of depending on the car, have nearby parks to play sports, good public schools... Also usually our family and friends live nearby. That's very important for us. Also, many people used to choose their apartment in a walking distance from their job (traditionally there is few movement of workers, people usually stay many years on the same company). It's way different than USA (except NY or SF maybe). Not better nor worse, just different :)
- RodericDay 12y ago
  It sounds like Montreal, too. I miss it.
candeira 12y ago
As a Spaniard now living in the inner suburbs of Melbourne, I have a good view into both ways of living. My wife likes to say that we live closer to shops than she's ever lived, and farther from shops than I've ever lived.
FranOntanaya 12y ago
Walking distance -- huge asset, even if a lot of spaniards still try to take their air conditioned car (it can get hot out there.) Neighbors as an asset... not so much. Some neighbors are nice, some are noisy, don't pay the communal expenses, quarrel a lot or fry sardines under your laundry lines. But crime is not a big issue, so in general you don't have to be afraid of your neighbors.

Swizec 12y ago

> I find it fascinating that despite not having the house+back yard that many Americans strive for As someone who spent the majority of their early childhood (ages 3 to 9) in such a house, then lived in an apartment in a city (without an elevator on top floor), I never understood why anyone would want a house. What do you even do with that much space? I live in a very comfortable 52m^2 (560 ft^2) studio and I don't have enough stuff to fill even half the storage space. Sure the kitchen is a bit small, and I guess the bathroom could be slightly more comfortable, but you can solve those with a bigger apartment; a house adds whole extra rooms. Seriously, what do people do with that much room? Granted if you have a kid and a spouse you'd want something more than a studio, but my mum's apartment is about the same size as my studio and was a 2-bedroom. The three of us (mum, sis, and me) lived there for 15 years together and we were perfectly fine. Hell even when it was four of us (dad as well) and we lived in that giant house, we only really lived on ground floor, which was essentially a 2-bedroom apartment, and the attic and basement were pretty much empty and/or filled with a bunch of junk. From the best of my observation, houses are expensive, take up a lot of time, and largely empty/useless.

willyt 12y ago
I'd be happy in a flat or a house. The right space is more important. I live in a small 2 bedroom house and I wish I just had a tiny 2m square study, somewhere which was my own space where I could e.g. safely leave my soldering iron set up and my kids wouldn't mess with it. Also my kids share a room and they don't have enough space to play Lego without having to put it away at the end of the day. I would really like it if they could have thier own rooms or a small playroom. I'm pretty sure this is not good for them or me. Also a utility room for the washing.
- Swizec 12y ago
  >Also my kids share a room and they don't have enough space to play Lego without having to put it away at the end of the day Having a safe spot for the soldering iron sounds like a good idea, but as far as putting away legos goes ... do you really want to teach your kids not to clean up after themselves? Those sorts of habits spill over. Always putting things in their rightful place has been one of the most important lessons I've ever learned. That way your place is always tidy and you never have to explicitly do any tidying up.

Dewie 12y ago

> I find it fascinating that despite not having the house+back yard that many Americans strive for, the Spanish are happier with their housing situations than we are. Why would American standards matter to how satisfied Spaniards are? This sentence in isolation seems weird. Is there a wider context?

rjdagost 12y ago
The wider context is that in any post about any topic someone at HN finds a way to take a shot at something American.
jamesaguilar 12y ago
I'm puzzled at why it seems strange to you. I find the differences between cultures interesting, and I am led to believe this is a fairly common fascination.
- Dewie 12y ago
  > I find it fascinating that despite not having the house+back yard that many Americans strive for, Frames it as if the Spanish have failed (therefore also actively tried) to achieve this American ideal. Overall, despite not having what some other culture have ... they are still happier, doesn't come off as curiosity about other cultures. It comes off as a surprise that other cultures are happier supposedly despite having tried to emulate that other culture, which is seemingly the gold standard. It's a very subjective interpretation anyway, and you'll just say that it's a false impression.

jseliger 12y ago

I find it fascinating that despite not having the house+back yard that many Americans strive for I too find it fascinating and I too live in a large apartment building, but a lot of other Americans would too if it were legal to build those apartment buildings. Matt Yglesias explains why in The Rent is Too Damn High (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0078XGJXO?tag=thstsst-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957 http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0078XGJXO?tag=thstsst-20&linkCode=...), but the short version is that cities forbid taller buildings through height restrictions and parking minimums in order to protect the property values of existing owners by limiting housing supply.

girvo 12y ago

I recently moved into a 1bdr apartment here in Brisbane, right in the city centre, and I absolutely love it. I've sold my car, as everything is walking distance (aside from the Gold Coast, which I catch a train to get to), and my neighbours are all awesome people -- they had a housewarming party for me! On the other hand, I don't have a family to raise, and while its very big (big lounge, a huge balcony looking over the city, two-entrace bathroom) if that was the case I could see why others would choose a house; here in Brisbane, the apartments that are big enough for a family either don't exist or do but are more expensive than renting a house anyway.