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Thanks! I'll pass the good feedback on to the rest of our team. We're working hard to bring you more features. I'm actually working on the autoplay algorithm r

by physcab 17y ago

Thanks! I'll pass the good feedback on to the rest of our team. We're working hard to bring you more features. I'm actually working on the autoplay algorithm right now so any feedback is quite helpful. Drop me a line anytime. Chris from Grooveshark

sarvesh 17y ago
I use Grooveshark and I agree that the autoplay is very naive compared to Pandora. A better autoplay algorithm will definitely help but it is hard give you feedback unless we know what you are trying to do with the new algorithm. Currently, correct me if am wrong, your algorithm for recommendation is heavily biased toward genre. It is really hard to discover new songs that I like with it and that's when I fall back to Pandora.
- endtime 17y ago
  I like how you and vaksel gave diametrically opposed suggestions...poor Chris.
  - physcab 17y ago
    Haha you'd be surprised by how many people love the current autoplay despite it's drawbacks. I have a feeling we're not hearing from the people who don't like it because they end up going to Pandora for better recs. I think it's a problem we can solve though. By our next product launch we'll have the logic in place to make both user groups happy.
- physcab 17y ago
  The original algorithm uses a mix of strategies to select songs. Its more or less hand picked. One thing that makes Grooveshark special is that it is all user-submitted content which is terrific from a selection and discovery point of view but an unwieldly problem from a data point of view. Note that our library stands somewhere around 6 million songs compared to Pandora's 600,000 so generating recs has to be done at great scale. The way in which users interact with our site is fundamentally different as well because you can add any mix of songs to your queue at any period in time.
vaksel 17y ago
For autoplay, I think the algorithm needs to give the initial song genre a little bit more weight, especially long term. Short term it works fine, but long term(couple of days) it'll go off on a tangent. For example, I'd start out with a fast paced upbeat song, and eventually it'll go to playing non-stop slow country music. For new discovery, I think you should let the user be able to select a new song style mid-way through. Something like "Play more like it" button, that would reset the algorhytm around the current song you are listening to.
- physcab 17y ago
  That's a great suggestion! Autoplay right now just takes into account your current playing song. We're hoping to build an algorithm that learns as your music moods change and adapts real time. If that doesn't give good results we might opt to give users more choice in how they want their recs to be delivered.
  - vaksel 17y ago
    Oh yeah, you def need to implement that. Thing is, that most people will search for a song that fits the type they want. So letting the genre wander, just delivers them wrong results. i.e. you start out with Hip Hop, then eventually you'll hit a song that is Hip Hop/Country, then you'll hit a song that's Country/Country, and then you are stuck listening for 3 hours to country music. Until you hit Country/Hip-Hop and get out of the loop. You could probably expand the options a little bit by making a few mutually exclusive lists. For example someone whose initial search was a country music song, probably doesn't want to ever hear gangsta rap. And vice versa. As far as trying to figure out the mood, I don't think that's plausible. The whole like/dislike/forward thing isn't going to get you the results you want. For example, I might "like" a song, but it doesn't mean I want to start hearing more songs like that at the moment. The dislike/forward is mostly used to skip past the songs that don't fit my initial criteria. I think it's something that you are better off leaving for your users to do manually. If they want to start hearing new types of music, they'll just search for a new song. There is no real reason to try to guesstimate their mood, since chances are you'll just get it wrong and will ruin the user experience. Oh and here is another suggestion for auto-play, let users use it without searching for the initial song. Use it as a "Play me a random song" button. This way users can discover new music.
tomjen2 17y ago
The problem with Groveshark is that I can't seem to find one legal piece of music on it. Other than that it is definitely better (that is easy though, Pandora doesn't work at all. Keep up the good work.
- ericlavigne 17y ago
  "The problem with Grooveshark is that I can't seem to find one legal piece of music on it." You're very casually making a serious accusation. Can you offer any evidence that Grooveshark is doing something illegal?
  - tomjen2 17y ago
    I wasn't trying to say that Groveshark did anything illegal, just most of the songs there (and all those I had seen) didn't seem to be licensed (mostly because they where available in multiple copies). I assume that the uploads was done by users, not Groveshark.
    - physcab 17y ago
      We are a completely legal business. We follow federal dmca rules and if you want something taken down you can notify us and we'll remove it within 48 hours. We are also in the process of negotiating with all major labels. We like to think that we help new artists get discovered though. We have a very good analytics solution that tracks the number of plays new artists get and present the results in our Grooveshark Artists section. New artists can also pay for Autoplay campaigns and we'll circulate their songs into users Autoplay sessions.
      - tomjen2 17y ago
        I have simply not seen one of those new artists, but that is definitely a good idea. If you get an agreement with the major labels, I will become a paid subscriber. It would be one of the greatest things that have happened to music in this millennium.

by physcab 17y ago

sarvesh 17y ago

I use Grooveshark and I agree that the autoplay is very naive compared to Pandora. A better autoplay algorithm will definitely help but it is hard give you feedback unless we know what you are trying to do with the new algorithm. Currently, correct me if am wrong, your algorithm for recommendation is heavily biased toward genre. It is really hard to discover new songs that I like with it and that's when I fall back to Pandora.

endtime 17y ago
I like how you and vaksel gave diametrically opposed suggestions...poor Chris.
- physcab 17y ago
  Haha you'd be surprised by how many people love the current autoplay despite it's drawbacks. I have a feeling we're not hearing from the people who don't like it because they end up going to Pandora for better recs. I think it's a problem we can solve though. By our next product launch we'll have the logic in place to make both user groups happy.
physcab 17y ago
The original algorithm uses a mix of strategies to select songs. Its more or less hand picked. One thing that makes Grooveshark special is that it is all user-submitted content which is terrific from a selection and discovery point of view but an unwieldly problem from a data point of view. Note that our library stands somewhere around 6 million songs compared to Pandora's 600,000 so generating recs has to be done at great scale. The way in which users interact with our site is fundamentally different as well because you can add any mix of songs to your queue at any period in time.

vaksel 17y ago

For autoplay, I think the algorithm needs to give the initial song genre a little bit more weight, especially long term. Short term it works fine, but long term(couple of days) it'll go off on a tangent. For example, I'd start out with a fast paced upbeat song, and eventually it'll go to playing non-stop slow country music. For new discovery, I think you should let the user be able to select a new song style mid-way through. Something like "Play more like it" button, that would reset the algorhytm around the current song you are listening to.

physcab 17y ago
That's a great suggestion! Autoplay right now just takes into account your current playing song. We're hoping to build an algorithm that learns as your music moods change and adapts real time. If that doesn't give good results we might opt to give users more choice in how they want their recs to be delivered.
- vaksel 17y ago
  Oh yeah, you def need to implement that. Thing is, that most people will search for a song that fits the type they want. So letting the genre wander, just delivers them wrong results. i.e. you start out with Hip Hop, then eventually you'll hit a song that is Hip Hop/Country, then you'll hit a song that's Country/Country, and then you are stuck listening for 3 hours to country music. Until you hit Country/Hip-Hop and get out of the loop. You could probably expand the options a little bit by making a few mutually exclusive lists. For example someone whose initial search was a country music song, probably doesn't want to ever hear gangsta rap. And vice versa. As far as trying to figure out the mood, I don't think that's plausible. The whole like/dislike/forward thing isn't going to get you the results you want. For example, I might "like" a song, but it doesn't mean I want to start hearing more songs like that at the moment. The dislike/forward is mostly used to skip past the songs that don't fit my initial criteria. I think it's something that you are better off leaving for your users to do manually. If they want to start hearing new types of music, they'll just search for a new song. There is no real reason to try to guesstimate their mood, since chances are you'll just get it wrong and will ruin the user experience. Oh and here is another suggestion for auto-play, let users use it without searching for the initial song. Use it as a "Play me a random song" button. This way users can discover new music.

tomjen2 17y ago

The problem with Groveshark is that I can't seem to find one legal piece of music on it. Other than that it is definitely better (that is easy though, Pandora doesn't work at all. Keep up the good work.

ericlavigne 17y ago
"The problem with Grooveshark is that I can't seem to find one legal piece of music on it." You're very casually making a serious accusation. Can you offer any evidence that Grooveshark is doing something illegal?
- tomjen2 17y ago
  I wasn't trying to say that Groveshark did anything illegal, just most of the songs there (and all those I had seen) didn't seem to be licensed (mostly because they where available in multiple copies). I assume that the uploads was done by users, not Groveshark.
  - physcab 17y ago
    We are a completely legal business. We follow federal dmca rules and if you want something taken down you can notify us and we'll remove it within 48 hours. We are also in the process of negotiating with all major labels. We like to think that we help new artists get discovered though. We have a very good analytics solution that tracks the number of plays new artists get and present the results in our Grooveshark Artists section. New artists can also pay for Autoplay campaigns and we'll circulate their songs into users Autoplay sessions.
    - tomjen2 17y ago
      I have simply not seen one of those new artists, but that is definitely a good idea. If you get an agreement with the major labels, I will become a paid subscriber. It would be one of the greatest things that have happened to music in this millennium.