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When something has been far too bent over in one direction, you often need to push it over the other way to eventually correct it. Holding it in the middle and

When something has been far too bent over in one direction, you often need to push it over the other way to eventually correct it. Holding it in the middle and thinking it will stay put over generations is wishful at best. That's why campaigning often takes on an aggressive bent, and why affirmative action is called for. Current generations steeped in sexism (I mean, much as I'm a feminist, I see many of my ingrained sexist biases) need to prop up this scaffold to make sure the changes are institutionalized and carry over and next generations are raised with less biases by means of institutions, as opposed to "just keep in mind everybody is equal, yay!" I'm a man, and I could even agree with you that "feminism" is not a great term, but I disagree about most of the rest of your opinion. It's a serious matter, very serious, and some people do need to feel inconvenienced sometimes. For me being a feminist is nothing more than a modern open mind's rational stance. Unless you don't really care about fellow human beings.

gizmo686 12y ago
>When something has been far too bent over in one direction, you often need to push it over the other way to eventually correct it. Holding it in the middle and thinking it will stay put over generations is wishful at best. I disagree, once it is held at the middle for a generation, it will stay there (barring some unrelated event pushing it back), because people will have grown up with it there, and all of the inertia has shifted to holding it in the middle. In fact, even without any holding, I would expect it to tend towards the middle (albeit very slowly). In my mind, all that movements such as feminism are doing is (greatly) accelerating the rate we get there (which I am in favor of).
ahomescu1 12y ago
> That's why campaigning often takes on an aggressive bent, and why affirmative action is called for. Current generations steeped in sexism (I mean, much as I'm a feminist, I see many of my ingrained sexist biases) need to prop up this scaffold to make sure the changes are institutionalized and carry over and next generations are raised with less biases by means of institutions, as opposed to "just keep in mind everybody is equal, yay!" If you fight one injustice with an even bigger one, the war just continues forever. Counteracting sexism against women this generation using affirmative action (giving women more rights than men) just means that next generation men will see themselves as abused and exploited and ask for affirmative action in their favor. This will simply keep escalating more and more. The only solution is to treat everyone the same.
- jrock08 12y ago
  > If you fight one injustice with an even bigger one, the war just continues forever. Except equality isn't a possibility in the current "climate". There aren't 50% women in tech, politics, etc. Unless you make a strong stance that we need more women, to the tune of more money spent or more outreach, it will never get there, because the status quo is easier to maintain. > Counteracting sexism against women this generation using affirmative action (giving women more rights than men) just means that next generation men will see themselves as abused and exploited and ask for affirmative action in their favor. But that's not true historically, or logically. White people aren't the minority asking for affirmative action now. Once we get to 50% there might be a slight overcorrection of a few %, but fear of a future in which men need affirmative action shouldn't be an excuse for why we shouldn't provide for women in tech (~14%). > The only solution is to treat everyone the same. Exactly, we need to have 50% women in tech, and the only way to do that is by applying a force to increase the number of women in tech tomorrow.
soeinfachistdas 12y ago
When it comes to those in poverty, minorities have an upper hand over europeans. They get food and housing more easily their entire lives, and its because of the laws that give them social assistance that europeans (especially single european males and females) don't get. Bending racism or sexism one way too far to correct some perceived historical slight, is sexist, racist, and wrong, and you are wrong. Answering sexism and racism with other forms of sexism and racism, is a slight against all who were not initially involved in the racism and sexism, and encourages families who have no history of being sexist or racist to become so, to correct the sexist and racist laws you've implemented on them. Have a good day.

gizmo686 12y ago

>When something has been far too bent over in one direction, you often need to push it over the other way to eventually correct it. Holding it in the middle and thinking it will stay put over generations is wishful at best. I disagree, once it is held at the middle for a generation, it will stay there (barring some unrelated event pushing it back), because people will have grown up with it there, and all of the inertia has shifted to holding it in the middle. In fact, even without any holding, I would expect it to tend towards the middle (albeit very slowly). In my mind, all that movements such as feminism are doing is (greatly) accelerating the rate we get there (which I am in favor of).

ahomescu1 12y ago

> That's why campaigning often takes on an aggressive bent, and why affirmative action is called for. Current generations steeped in sexism (I mean, much as I'm a feminist, I see many of my ingrained sexist biases) need to prop up this scaffold to make sure the changes are institutionalized and carry over and next generations are raised with less biases by means of institutions, as opposed to "just keep in mind everybody is equal, yay!" If you fight one injustice with an even bigger one, the war just continues forever. Counteracting sexism against women this generation using affirmative action (giving women more rights than men) just means that next generation men will see themselves as abused and exploited and ask for affirmative action in their favor. This will simply keep escalating more and more. The only solution is to treat everyone the same.

jrock08 12y ago
> If you fight one injustice with an even bigger one, the war just continues forever. Except equality isn't a possibility in the current "climate". There aren't 50% women in tech, politics, etc. Unless you make a strong stance that we need more women, to the tune of more money spent or more outreach, it will never get there, because the status quo is easier to maintain. > Counteracting sexism against women this generation using affirmative action (giving women more rights than men) just means that next generation men will see themselves as abused and exploited and ask for affirmative action in their favor. But that's not true historically, or logically. White people aren't the minority asking for affirmative action now. Once we get to 50% there might be a slight overcorrection of a few %, but fear of a future in which men need affirmative action shouldn't be an excuse for why we shouldn't provide for women in tech (~14%). > The only solution is to treat everyone the same. Exactly, we need to have 50% women in tech, and the only way to do that is by applying a force to increase the number of women in tech tomorrow.

soeinfachistdas 12y ago

When it comes to those in poverty, minorities have an upper hand over europeans. They get food and housing more easily their entire lives, and its because of the laws that give them social assistance that europeans (especially single european males and females) don't get. Bending racism or sexism one way too far to correct some perceived historical slight, is sexist, racist, and wrong, and you are wrong. Answering sexism and racism with other forms of sexism and racism, is a slight against all who were not initially involved in the racism and sexism, and encourages families who have no history of being sexist or racist to become so, to correct the sexist and racist laws you've implemented on them. Have a good day.