6 ms·

Secretive X-37B Military Space Plane Could Land in California Tuesday

47 points by jabo 12y ago

wwarren 12y ago
So is this just a rapidly deployable surveillance platform? What's the advantage over existing spy satellites?
- ZoFreX 12y ago
  Presumably that it can move around. Satellites don't carry much fuel and you can't keep repositioning them, so to get surveillance over an area you have to wait for a satellite to be above it. Presumably this thing as it is a plane, and also because it returns to Earth after a relatively short time to pick up more fuel, can reposition much more rapidly.
  - pokstad 12y ago
    I think another possibility may be the repairing of friendly satellites and spying on enemy satellites. Flying up to an enemy satellite without interrupting it may not break any treaties. The space shuttle was originally built with the intention to repair and launch spy satellites. This vehicle went into service around the same time the shuttle was being retired. Also, there may be some sort of metric being recorded that requires physical retrieval because of lack of bandwidth. Older satellites actually dumped film for later retrieval.
- akbar501 12y ago
  > What's the advantage over existing spy satellites? The first nukes in a large scale war will be detonated in space to eliminate communication, spy, and other satellites. If an opposing force has a successful 1st strike then a rapidly deployable surveillance platform to re-establish our capabilities would be highly valuable.
  - Sven7 12y ago
    Large scale war? Give me a break. The white flags will go up as soon as people loose access to their facebook streams or hackernews for that matter.
    - akbar501 12y ago
      I never said that it would be a popular war...just large scale. Just because something is not popular with the majority of a population (loss of FB) does not mean it cannot/will not happen. Even in a democracy. I must ask. > Large scale war? Give me a break. Are you suggesting that large scale war cannot ever happen in the future. That it's completely outside the realm of possibility? Is it an impossibility?
      - Sven7 12y ago
        "Large scale wars" happen when both sides are equally balanced in resources. When was the last time that happened?
  - pjc50 12y ago
    .. followed by the other nukes detonating above cities as soon as they complete their ballistic trajectories. A "limited" nuclear war is an absurdity, and it's dangerous to even think that it might be possible let alone end in anything other than massive destruction.
jonah 12y ago
Is there any information or speculation on what kinds of package(s) it carries? With the payload bay the size of a pickup bed, it doesn't seem like it could carry much.
- UnoriginalGuy 12y ago
  You got me interested. So it seems like most surveillance satellites have traditionally been fairly large [0]. However much of that space is taken up by fuel storage tanks to place the payload into orbit, the actual guts of the thing is around the size of three adult men laying side by side. Now that is a 1970s satellite. Since then camera technology, battery technology, and circuitry has moved forward significantly. It would not surprise me if a 2014 intelligence platform could fit into the bed of a pickup truck. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corona_(satellite)#mediaviewer/File:KH-4B_CORONA-J3.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corona_(satellite)#mediaviewer/...
  - techdragon 12y ago
    The real constraint is the optics, a visual spectrum ccd type imaging device needed some funky optics to fit in some of the svelte spy says that have become sufficiently public knowledge that we know how they did it. If it's taking instantaneous pictures of an area on the surface of the earth it's hard to avoid certain limits and I Remain convinced the X-37B is definitely not a traditional optical photographic intelligence gathering platform. If anything I'd hazard it's doing something like running experimental hardware they think could be used for *LINT of some kind but needs space testing to see if it's worth building a dedicated satellite or two for the stuff.
    - Gravityloss 12y ago
      You could also have advanced optics like multi aperture cameras that could fit the form factor better. Or collapsible structures.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
nnx 12y ago
http://www.dtic.mil/get-tr-doc/pdf?AD=ADA407255 http://www.dtic.mil/get-tr-doc/pdf?AD=ADA407255 This report explains the background, scope and goals of the X-37 project. The title of the second part of the report sounds interesting: "Is Space the next Pearl Harbor?"
o0-0o 12y ago
If it's secretive, why would any of this be out in the press?
- syncsynchalt 12y ago
  In general, because you can't hide anything in LEO. X-37B's orbit (and orbital changes) are well known. That doesn't explain why we know it's coming down, but I'm guessing that leaked or wasn't considered sensitive.
Certified 12y ago
TL;DR : I think the X-37 is nothing more spectacular than an upgradable spy satellite that can change it's orbit of inclination giving it the ability to spy on any part of the globe as quickly as possible. Although the X-37B's mission is a closely guarded secret, many facts are public knowledge. I compiled a quick timeline a while back and seeing as it is in the news again, I am reviving it. 1998 : During the Clinton administration, Boeing test drops the X-40A, a test vehicle that would later be developed into the X-37. The government's own National museum of the US Air Force [freely states](http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=13873 http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id...) "The SMV program aimed at developing a new generation of small and reusable, highly maneuverable space vehicles for deploying satellites, surveillance, and logistics missions." 1999 : Public acknowledged start date of the X-37 project. Obvious similarities between the X-40A, launched a year earlier, and the X-37 show that work had already been started on the project, in one form or another. 2004 : The Bush administration decides to shake up nasa and outlines it's [Vision for Space Exploration](http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/55583main_vision_space_exploration2.pdf http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/55583main_vision_space_exploration2....). In it, they outline the future of spaceflight laying out the, later cancelled, renewed efforts to send manned missions to the moon and later mars. In it they talk about a new generation of launch vehicles. This document is the beginning of the end for the already aging shuttle program. In it, they spell out that the shuttle program's only continuing purpose would be to finish the international space station. 2004 : Also in President George's plan is the further classification of the X-37/X-40 projects as they are [moved from NASA to Darpa](http://www.space.com/337-nasa-transfers-37-project-darpa.html http://www.space.com/337-nasa-transfers-37-project-darpa.htm...) where a tighter lid can be kept on the whole project. 2006 : First Drop test of the X-37 2009 : Barack Obama is elected POTUS 22Apr2010 : First launch of the first X-37, Mission USA-212, and lasted 225 days 5Mar2011 : A different X-37 is launched and lasted 469 days 11Dec2012 : Another X-37 is launched and is still in orbit at the time of writing this. It is possibly that it is the same ship as was used in the first launch. As of today it has been in orbit, 657 days. USA-240 Mission 8Oct2014 : [NASA Partners with X-37B Program for Use of Former Space Shuttle Hangars](http://www.nasa.gov/press/2014/october/nasa-partners-with-x-37b-program-for-use-of-former-space-shuttle-hangars/#.VDaql6XF9K8 http://www.nasa.gov/press/2014/october/nasa-partners-with-x-...) 13Oct2014 : [The X-37B is reportedly going to land in California Tommorrow](http://news.yahoo.com/secretive-x-37b-military-space-plane-could-land-132030466.html http://news.yahoo.com/secretive-x-37b-military-space-plane-c...) My personal conclusions on all this lead me to believe the following however I highly recommend anyone with interest in the subject research it and make your own conclusions as I might have missed something: Due to the long amount of time they have kept each X-37 in orbit and the apparent desire to keep one in orbit at any given time, I personally believe that the mission is ongoing and of perceived strategic importance to the united states. Given that the US government itself has described the X-37's predecessor as a "highly maneuverable space vehicle for deploying satellites, surveillance, and logistics missions" I believe this is exactly what it is doing. It is an orbital space plane with a next generation optics and surveillance package that has the added ability of being able to change it's orbital inclination in the event that a certain spot on the earth needs observation urgently. Changing your orbital inclination costs a lot of fuel so you still want to be able to deorbit to be able to refuel and have another ready to take it's place when you do this. This also gives your engineers at Boeing time to make improvements and upgrades on one bird while the other is flying keeping your optics and sensors at the cutting edge all the time.

47 points by jabo 12y ago

wwarren 12y ago

So is this just a rapidly deployable surveillance platform? What's the advantage over existing spy satellites?

ZoFreX 12y ago
Presumably that it can move around. Satellites don't carry much fuel and you can't keep repositioning them, so to get surveillance over an area you have to wait for a satellite to be above it. Presumably this thing as it is a plane, and also because it returns to Earth after a relatively short time to pick up more fuel, can reposition much more rapidly.
- pokstad 12y ago
  I think another possibility may be the repairing of friendly satellites and spying on enemy satellites. Flying up to an enemy satellite without interrupting it may not break any treaties. The space shuttle was originally built with the intention to repair and launch spy satellites. This vehicle went into service around the same time the shuttle was being retired. Also, there may be some sort of metric being recorded that requires physical retrieval because of lack of bandwidth. Older satellites actually dumped film for later retrieval.
akbar501 12y ago
> What's the advantage over existing spy satellites? The first nukes in a large scale war will be detonated in space to eliminate communication, spy, and other satellites. If an opposing force has a successful 1st strike then a rapidly deployable surveillance platform to re-establish our capabilities would be highly valuable.
- Sven7 12y ago
  Large scale war? Give me a break. The white flags will go up as soon as people loose access to their facebook streams or hackernews for that matter.
  - akbar501 12y ago
    I never said that it would be a popular war...just large scale. Just because something is not popular with the majority of a population (loss of FB) does not mean it cannot/will not happen. Even in a democracy. I must ask. > Large scale war? Give me a break. Are you suggesting that large scale war cannot ever happen in the future. That it's completely outside the realm of possibility? Is it an impossibility?
    - Sven7 12y ago
      "Large scale wars" happen when both sides are equally balanced in resources. When was the last time that happened?
- pjc50 12y ago
  .. followed by the other nukes detonating above cities as soon as they complete their ballistic trajectories. A "limited" nuclear war is an absurdity, and it's dangerous to even think that it might be possible let alone end in anything other than massive destruction.

jonah 12y ago

Is there any information or speculation on what kinds of package(s) it carries? With the payload bay the size of a pickup bed, it doesn't seem like it could carry much.

UnoriginalGuy 12y ago
You got me interested. So it seems like most surveillance satellites have traditionally been fairly large [0]. However much of that space is taken up by fuel storage tanks to place the payload into orbit, the actual guts of the thing is around the size of three adult men laying side by side. Now that is a 1970s satellite. Since then camera technology, battery technology, and circuitry has moved forward significantly. It would not surprise me if a 2014 intelligence platform could fit into the bed of a pickup truck. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corona_(satellite)#mediaviewer/File:KH-4B_CORONA-J3.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corona_(satellite)#mediaviewer/...
- techdragon 12y ago
  The real constraint is the optics, a visual spectrum ccd type imaging device needed some funky optics to fit in some of the svelte spy says that have become sufficiently public knowledge that we know how they did it. If it's taking instantaneous pictures of an area on the surface of the earth it's hard to avoid certain limits and I Remain convinced the X-37B is definitely not a traditional optical photographic intelligence gathering platform. If anything I'd hazard it's doing something like running experimental hardware they think could be used for *LINT of some kind but needs space testing to see if it's worth building a dedicated satellite or two for the stuff.
  - Gravityloss 12y ago
    You could also have advanced optics like multi aperture cameras that could fit the form factor better. Or collapsible structures.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

nnx 12y ago

http://www.dtic.mil/get-tr-doc/pdf?AD=ADA407255 http://www.dtic.mil/get-tr-doc/pdf?AD=ADA407255 This report explains the background, scope and goals of the X-37 project. The title of the second part of the report sounds interesting: "Is Space the next Pearl Harbor?"

o0-0o 12y ago

If it's secretive, why would any of this be out in the press?

syncsynchalt 12y ago
In general, because you can't hide anything in LEO. X-37B's orbit (and orbital changes) are well known. That doesn't explain why we know it's coming down, but I'm guessing that leaked or wasn't considered sensitive.

Certified 12y ago

TL;DR : I think the X-37 is nothing more spectacular than an upgradable spy satellite that can change it's orbit of inclination giving it the ability to spy on any part of the globe as quickly as possible. Although the X-37B's mission is a closely guarded secret, many facts are public knowledge. I compiled a quick timeline a while back and seeing as it is in the news again, I am reviving it. 1998 : During the Clinton administration, Boeing test drops the X-40A, a test vehicle that would later be developed into the X-37. The government's own National museum of the US Air Force [freely states](http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=13873 http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id...) "The SMV program aimed at developing a new generation of small and reusable, highly maneuverable space vehicles for deploying satellites, surveillance, and logistics missions." 1999 : Public acknowledged start date of the X-37 project. Obvious similarities between the X-40A, launched a year earlier, and the X-37 show that work had already been started on the project, in one form or another. 2004 : The Bush administration decides to shake up nasa and outlines it's [Vision for Space Exploration](http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/55583main_vision_space_exploration2.pdf http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/55583main_vision_space_exploration2....). In it, they outline the future of spaceflight laying out the, later cancelled, renewed efforts to send manned missions to the moon and later mars. In it they talk about a new generation of launch vehicles. This document is the beginning of the end for the already aging shuttle program. In it, they spell out that the shuttle program's only continuing purpose would be to finish the international space station. 2004 : Also in President George's plan is the further classification of the X-37/X-40 projects as they are [moved from NASA to Darpa](http://www.space.com/337-nasa-transfers-37-project-darpa.html http://www.space.com/337-nasa-transfers-37-project-darpa.htm...) where a tighter lid can be kept on the whole project. 2006 : First Drop test of the X-37 2009 : Barack Obama is elected POTUS 22Apr2010 : First launch of the first X-37, Mission USA-212, and lasted 225 days 5Mar2011 : A different X-37 is launched and lasted 469 days 11Dec2012 : Another X-37 is launched and is still in orbit at the time of writing this. It is possibly that it is the same ship as was used in the first launch. As of today it has been in orbit, 657 days. USA-240 Mission 8Oct2014 : [NASA Partners with X-37B Program for Use of Former Space Shuttle Hangars](http://www.nasa.gov/press/2014/october/nasa-partners-with-x-37b-program-for-use-of-former-space-shuttle-hangars/#.VDaql6XF9K8 http://www.nasa.gov/press/2014/october/nasa-partners-with-x-...) 13Oct2014 : [The X-37B is reportedly going to land in California Tommorrow](http://news.yahoo.com/secretive-x-37b-military-space-plane-could-land-132030466.html http://news.yahoo.com/secretive-x-37b-military-space-plane-c...) My personal conclusions on all this lead me to believe the following however I highly recommend anyone with interest in the subject research it and make your own conclusions as I might have missed something: Due to the long amount of time they have kept each X-37 in orbit and the apparent desire to keep one in orbit at any given time, I personally believe that the mission is ongoing and of perceived strategic importance to the united states. Given that the US government itself has described the X-37's predecessor as a "highly maneuverable space vehicle for deploying satellites, surveillance, and logistics missions" I believe this is exactly what it is doing. It is an orbital space plane with a next generation optics and surveillance package that has the added ability of being able to change it's orbital inclination in the event that a certain spot on the earth needs observation urgently. Changing your orbital inclination costs a lot of fuel so you still want to be able to deorbit to be able to refuel and have another ready to take it's place when you do this. This also gives your engineers at Boeing time to make improvements and upgrades on one bird while the other is flying keeping your optics and sensors at the cutting edge all the time.