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http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/10/screening-ebola-taking-temperature-cant-work.html http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/10/screening-ebola-takin... "Some

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/10/screening-ebola-taking-temperature-cant-work.html http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/10/screening-ebola-takin... "Some Ebola experts worry that the virus may spread more easily than thought -- through the air in small spaces, for example." Aerosol transmission is a very real possibility and has been demonstrated in the field and in some experiments, including working its way through the air ducts of a building, from one part to the another, infecting monkeys, and not just through one room. Though some strains are not as effective in that mode of transmission as others. edit: To the down-voters, at least make your case. The people that worked with the virus, and in the hot-zones, made theirs.

JshWright 12y ago
> including working its way through the air ducts of a building It's _far_ more likely that those transmissions were due to cross contact from the folks working with the animals. The researchers themselves suggested that was an equally likely vector.
- pmontra 12y ago
  Contact is far more likely cause of infection, agreed. But when sneezing we spray a tiny amount of fluids. Are they not enough to get infected even with a low probability? Given an high number of occurrences any low probability yields an event.
  - powertower 12y ago
    That's the definition of "aerosol transmission" here. Depending on the drop size and the viral load in those drops, depends on how far it will travel in air, how long it will be suspended in air, what potency it has, and how likely someone other can get infected when it's inhaled. It's how the most common virus is transmitted... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_cold#Transmission http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_cold#Transmission "The common cold virus is typically transmitted via airborne droplets (aerosols), direct contact with infected nasal secretions, or fomites (contaminated objects)." A person with Ebola going through a crowded airport and sneezing could infect dozens of other people under the right circumstances (virus strain, load, etc).
    - JshWright 12y ago
      A person with a viral load that high in their upper airway would not be in a condition to go walking through an airport.
  - hga 12y ago
    The virus still has to be in nasal passages or perhaps lower to get in what's expelled. Here's what I said in a recent discussion in reference to the fear it would evolve to be "airborne" as the term is medically used (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8421982 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8421982): The critical distinction here is that Ebola doesn't seem to infect the outer part of the respiratory system like colds or influenza. There's not a huge mass of cells there to be shedding viri and getting into the air, and it would take more than a few mutations for that to change. Ebola viri have been found in saliva, tears, can come from bleeding in the respiratory system, so it obviously can get airborne that way. Exactly what that means (how big are the droplets, how long do they stay in the air etc.), how significant that is as a mode of transmission (which includes iffy estimates of how many viri (virus particles) are required to make an infective dose) ... we just don't know. But with our current Ebola importation policy, it's very likely we will start to get answers to these questions....
  - JshWright 12y ago
    Droplets the size you sneeze out are not going to be transmitted through an air ventilation system.
    - theblueadept 12y ago
      How do you know that? Sneezing probably expels a cloud of droplets that are too small to see and can hang in the hair.
      - JshWright 12y ago
        Because this is actually a fairly well defined area of research. Sneezing absolutely does produce particles that small. Ebola cannot be transmitted by those particles. The larger droplets that can transmit Ebola are too large to make it through a ventilation system.
        powertower 12y ago
        http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15588056 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15588056 > Although they are not naturally transmitted by aerosol, they are highly infectious as respirable particles under laboratory conditions. I think the issue is to what degree it can get into the fluid that is sneezed out by humans... Once it's in it, the size of the droplet does not matter to how viable the virus is - it's deadly if inhaled in by someone else.
Bud 12y ago
Here's my case: you made your alarmist "case", such as it is, by posting a junk article from a junk, far-right blog whose other charming entries include: -9/11 truther articles -racist crap about Ebola spreading over the Mexican border because of insufficient efforts to secure said border -several other non-scientific articles about Ebola -an article about "Obama's Ukrainian stooges" If you want to make your case, find one cite--just one will do--from a legitimate publication of any kind.
- powertower 12y ago
  http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2014/09/commentary-health-workers-need-optimal-respiratory-protection-ebola http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2014/09/commentar... "We believe there is scientific and epidemiologic evidence that Ebola virus has the potential to be transmitted via infectious aerosol particles both near and at a distance from infected patients, which means that healthcare workers should be wearing respirators, not facemasks."
  - Bud 12y ago
    Thank you. I very much appreciate that additional cite.
- lhnz 12y ago
  I did a quick google and found this: http://virologydownunder.blogspot.co.uk/2014/08/ebola-virus-may-be-spread-by-droplets.html http://virologydownunder.blogspot.co.uk/2014/08/ebola-virus-... It has legitimate publications inside it so it looks like the possibility is quite justified. It seems that the term "airborne" is very specific and droplets might exist in the air even if it's not considered airborne. (I'm not saying that droplets can be found in the air, but simply that it's not fully confirmed and that this is the reason why they recommend respiratory masks.)

JshWright 12y ago

> including working its way through the air ducts of a building It's _far_ more likely that those transmissions were due to cross contact from the folks working with the animals. The researchers themselves suggested that was an equally likely vector.

pmontra 12y ago
Contact is far more likely cause of infection, agreed. But when sneezing we spray a tiny amount of fluids. Are they not enough to get infected even with a low probability? Given an high number of occurrences any low probability yields an event.
- powertower 12y ago
  That's the definition of "aerosol transmission" here. Depending on the drop size and the viral load in those drops, depends on how far it will travel in air, how long it will be suspended in air, what potency it has, and how likely someone other can get infected when it's inhaled. It's how the most common virus is transmitted... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_cold#Transmission http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_cold#Transmission "The common cold virus is typically transmitted via airborne droplets (aerosols), direct contact with infected nasal secretions, or fomites (contaminated objects)." A person with Ebola going through a crowded airport and sneezing could infect dozens of other people under the right circumstances (virus strain, load, etc).
  - JshWright 12y ago
    A person with a viral load that high in their upper airway would not be in a condition to go walking through an airport.
- hga 12y ago
  The virus still has to be in nasal passages or perhaps lower to get in what's expelled. Here's what I said in a recent discussion in reference to the fear it would evolve to be "airborne" as the term is medically used (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8421982 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8421982): The critical distinction here is that Ebola doesn't seem to infect the outer part of the respiratory system like colds or influenza. There's not a huge mass of cells there to be shedding viri and getting into the air, and it would take more than a few mutations for that to change. Ebola viri have been found in saliva, tears, can come from bleeding in the respiratory system, so it obviously can get airborne that way. Exactly what that means (how big are the droplets, how long do they stay in the air etc.), how significant that is as a mode of transmission (which includes iffy estimates of how many viri (virus particles) are required to make an infective dose) ... we just don't know. But with our current Ebola importation policy, it's very likely we will start to get answers to these questions....
- JshWright 12y ago
  Droplets the size you sneeze out are not going to be transmitted through an air ventilation system.
  - theblueadept 12y ago
    How do you know that? Sneezing probably expels a cloud of droplets that are too small to see and can hang in the hair.
    - JshWright 12y ago
      Because this is actually a fairly well defined area of research. Sneezing absolutely does produce particles that small. Ebola cannot be transmitted by those particles. The larger droplets that can transmit Ebola are too large to make it through a ventilation system.
      - powertower 12y ago
        http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15588056 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15588056 > Although they are not naturally transmitted by aerosol, they are highly infectious as respirable particles under laboratory conditions. I think the issue is to what degree it can get into the fluid that is sneezed out by humans... Once it's in it, the size of the droplet does not matter to how viable the virus is - it's deadly if inhaled in by someone else.

Bud 12y ago

Here's my case: you made your alarmist "case", such as it is, by posting a junk article from a junk, far-right blog whose other charming entries include: -9/11 truther articles -racist crap about Ebola spreading over the Mexican border because of insufficient efforts to secure said border -several other non-scientific articles about Ebola -an article about "Obama's Ukrainian stooges" If you want to make your case, find one cite--just one will do--from a legitimate publication of any kind.

powertower 12y ago
http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2014/09/commentary-health-workers-need-optimal-respiratory-protection-ebola http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2014/09/commentar... "We believe there is scientific and epidemiologic evidence that Ebola virus has the potential to be transmitted via infectious aerosol particles both near and at a distance from infected patients, which means that healthcare workers should be wearing respirators, not facemasks."
- Bud 12y ago
  Thank you. I very much appreciate that additional cite.
lhnz 12y ago
I did a quick google and found this: http://virologydownunder.blogspot.co.uk/2014/08/ebola-virus-may-be-spread-by-droplets.html http://virologydownunder.blogspot.co.uk/2014/08/ebola-virus-... It has legitimate publications inside it so it looks like the possibility is quite justified. It seems that the term "airborne" is very specific and droplets might exist in the air even if it's not considered airborne. (I'm not saying that droplets can be found in the air, but simply that it's not fully confirmed and that this is the reason why they recommend respiratory masks.)