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First you have to void your warranty to properly dual boot now this? They want to drop support for a file format so they can make renaming drives easier? I'm a

by sah88 12y ago

First you have to void your warranty to properly dual boot now this? They want to drop support for a file format so they can make renaming drives easier? I'm actually in the market for a new laptop/netbook. I was very close to purchasing a ChromeOS device as I work primarily on a desktop and have a laptop for travel but its pretty old, heavy and battery unfriendly. Then I found out I had to void the warranty to properly dual boot. Seems like a giant fuck you to the Linux community given how much Google has benefited from Linux(ChromeOS even runs on the Linux kernel) and they put out laptops that are more locked down than your average windows laptops? Pretty disappointing. I am assuming the write protect screws are there at the behest of Google.

ewoodrich 12y ago
>I'm actually in the market for a new laptop/netbook. I was very close to purchasing a ChromeOS device as I work primarily on a desktop and have a laptop for travel but its pretty old, heavy and battery unfriendly. Then I found out I had to void the warranty to properly dual boot. I assume you mean having to wait or hit Ctrl-D and manually start a shell? Personally, in some ways I prefer it that way. I have two Chromebooks, and mostly use Crouton, but I've restored them back to factory state with a single keystroke several times, and it makes me confident that I can easily revert after messing with the OS. EDIT: Seems like a giant fuck you to the Linux community given how much Google has benefited from Linux(ChromeOS even runs on the Linux kernel) and they put out laptops that are more locked down than your average windows laptops? Pretty disappointing That's pretty unfair, Google contributes upstream for both ChromeOS and Android, and from the start they allowed an easily accessible developer mode, while prioritizing the security and simplicity for normal consumers.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- sah88 12y ago
  My opinion was primarily based on this: http://www.reddit.com/r/chromeos/comments/207wlm/is_it_possible_to_avoid_someone_else_from/ http://www.reddit.com/r/chromeos/comments/207wlm/is_it_possi... I can't think of one good reason why a SINGLE keypress at boot can wipe everything and revert to factory settings. Moreover it isn't even password protected. If you don't reflash the bios and you are dual booting ANYONE can walk over, turn your computer on, press space, and tada your computer is wiped. This is the screen: http://imgur.com/wMtvgX3 http://imgur.com/wMtvgX3 I'd be willing to bet the majority of people would press space faced with that, especially after 15-20s of it sitting there doing nothing. (it sits at that screen for 30s unless you hit Ctrl-D) The only reason I can think of that anyone would implement something so inane would be to discourage people from dual booting. edit: I don't disagree that Google has contributed a lot to the Linux community. Overall I'm a pretty big fan of Google and I use a lot of their products. That said I still think their approach to ChromeOS has been very unfriendly towards Linux users. (they're bad vs. what they did was bad)
  - ewoodrich 12y ago
    The only reason I can think of that anyone would implement something so inane would be to discourage people from dual booting. Or, as an example, to make sure that you won't "mod" your Grandma's computer and silently break auto-updates or cause performance issues without her knowing. The screen is clearly designed for non power-users, and Google wants it to look as scary as possible to dissuade consumers who are just following a tutorial online, or something. EDIT: I'm surprised this is controversial. It's one of the express reasons for verified boot warnings.
  - coffeedrinker 12y ago
    My 14 year old daughter runs chromeOS and xubuntu on her Chromebook and she takes it to school and she has never had a problem with it being wiped. She is, however, aware that files stored on that machine internally could be lost and she takes precaution. I bought our first HP Chromebook 14 as refurb off and love it so much I bought a second one. They are both in constant use in our household. My wife even prefers to use hers over her desktop.
  - wfjackson 12y ago
    The Linux partition and all the data will also be wiped if the battery runs out while the Chromebook is in sleep mode. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8261156 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8261156 https://plus.google.com/111049168280159033135/posts/4nkSEmGoVF4 https://plus.google.com/111049168280159033135/posts/4nkSEmGo...
    - ewoodrich 12y ago
      That may be true for the Pixel (I don't have one). But I've drained the battery on both my Chromebooks (HP 14 and c720) a number of times, and have never lost data on the stateful partition. I have replaced the SSD on both of them, however, so it could be hardware specific.
    - uyollti 12y ago
      Not exactly true, see https://sites.google.com/a/chromium.org/dev/chromium-os/developer-information-for-chrome-os-devices/workaround-for-battery-discharge-in-dev-mode https://sites.google.com/a/chromium.org/dev/chromium-os/deve...
driverdan 12y ago
How exactly does dual booting void your warranty?
- sah88 12y ago
  To properly dual boot without having this screen: http://imgur.com/wMtvgX3 http://imgur.com/wMtvgX3 (renabling wipes the hard drive) You have to remove a screw that voids the warranty and reflash the bios. That said, there could be some devices that don't have a write protect screw but every laptop I looked at had one.
  - driverdan 12y ago
    This depends on which Chromebook you have.
  - yebyen 12y ago
    Original Samsung ARM chromebook doesn't have any write protect screw, this is a device about which I have zero complaints so far. (I've owned it for only a few weeks so far.) I wish it came with a newer kernel, but all for reasons that "you can compile your own kernel" are really a valid response.
JohnTHaller 12y ago
It makes sense if you think of what the purpose of Chrome OS is. The point is not to make inexpensive hardware to run any OS on. The point is not to create a new general-purpose open OS that people can build on. The point is to get people to put there stuff in the Google Cloud to become bigger Google customers. Period. That's why they make it difficult to dual boot and allow all your files to be wiped with a single key. That's also why anything you do on the Chromebook before you login to Google for the first time isn't saved. The point is to make everything on the laptop appear impermanent and to get you to think of the cloud as the place your digital stuff is actually stored.
- tankenmate 12y ago
  The issue at hand isn't the purpose, it never was. It is how it limits the purpose of the user, even after Google benefited greatly from said users (everyone who uses open source software contributes to it, small or large; using, coding, documenting etc). "Hi! Mind helping us for a bit? Thanks for helping us. Now, how about you stop doing that stuff that is useful to you and start doing some stuff that is useful to us?" Not a very good narrative.
  - philwelch 12y ago
    If you don't want a laptop that does what the Chromebook is designed to do, then don't buy a Chromebook. What's the big deal?
    - EpicEng 12y ago
      I doubt the parent will, for the very reasons s/he expressed. Should we not discuss things we don't like?
- moonchrome 12y ago
  I'm actually wondering why would people spend money on a chromebook - the hardware is crap and the price isn't that great. If I was looking for a cheap portable web browsing device I'd get something like : http://www.onda-tablet.com/onda-v975w-quad-core-win-8-tablet-9-7-inch-retina-screen-ram-2gb-wifi-32gb.html http://www.onda-tablet.com/onda-v975w-quad-core-win-8-tablet... - that's a 10 inch Windows 8.1 tablet with 2048*1536 resolution, quad core atom and 2 GB ram for 220$. Throw in 20$ and you can find a USB case with keyboard. Portable, better performance, better screen, can be used as a "internet machine" with Win 8.

by sah88 12y ago

ewoodrich 12y ago

>I'm actually in the market for a new laptop/netbook. I was very close to purchasing a ChromeOS device as I work primarily on a desktop and have a laptop for travel but its pretty old, heavy and battery unfriendly. Then I found out I had to void the warranty to properly dual boot. I assume you mean having to wait or hit Ctrl-D and manually start a shell? Personally, in some ways I prefer it that way. I have two Chromebooks, and mostly use Crouton, but I've restored them back to factory state with a single keystroke several times, and it makes me confident that I can easily revert after messing with the OS. EDIT: Seems like a giant fuck you to the Linux community given how much Google has benefited from Linux(ChromeOS even runs on the Linux kernel) and they put out laptops that are more locked down than your average windows laptops? Pretty disappointing That's pretty unfair, Google contributes upstream for both ChromeOS and Android, and from the start they allowed an easily accessible developer mode, while prioritizing the security and simplicity for normal consumers.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
sah88 12y ago
My opinion was primarily based on this: http://www.reddit.com/r/chromeos/comments/207wlm/is_it_possible_to_avoid_someone_else_from/ http://www.reddit.com/r/chromeos/comments/207wlm/is_it_possi... I can't think of one good reason why a SINGLE keypress at boot can wipe everything and revert to factory settings. Moreover it isn't even password protected. If you don't reflash the bios and you are dual booting ANYONE can walk over, turn your computer on, press space, and tada your computer is wiped. This is the screen: http://imgur.com/wMtvgX3 http://imgur.com/wMtvgX3 I'd be willing to bet the majority of people would press space faced with that, especially after 15-20s of it sitting there doing nothing. (it sits at that screen for 30s unless you hit Ctrl-D) The only reason I can think of that anyone would implement something so inane would be to discourage people from dual booting. edit: I don't disagree that Google has contributed a lot to the Linux community. Overall I'm a pretty big fan of Google and I use a lot of their products. That said I still think their approach to ChromeOS has been very unfriendly towards Linux users. (they're bad vs. what they did was bad)
- ewoodrich 12y ago
  The only reason I can think of that anyone would implement something so inane would be to discourage people from dual booting. Or, as an example, to make sure that you won't "mod" your Grandma's computer and silently break auto-updates or cause performance issues without her knowing. The screen is clearly designed for non power-users, and Google wants it to look as scary as possible to dissuade consumers who are just following a tutorial online, or something. EDIT: I'm surprised this is controversial. It's one of the express reasons for verified boot warnings.
- coffeedrinker 12y ago
  My 14 year old daughter runs chromeOS and xubuntu on her Chromebook and she takes it to school and she has never had a problem with it being wiped. She is, however, aware that files stored on that machine internally could be lost and she takes precaution. I bought our first HP Chromebook 14 as refurb off and love it so much I bought a second one. They are both in constant use in our household. My wife even prefers to use hers over her desktop.
- wfjackson 12y ago
  The Linux partition and all the data will also be wiped if the battery runs out while the Chromebook is in sleep mode. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8261156 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8261156 https://plus.google.com/111049168280159033135/posts/4nkSEmGoVF4 https://plus.google.com/111049168280159033135/posts/4nkSEmGo...
  - ewoodrich 12y ago
    That may be true for the Pixel (I don't have one). But I've drained the battery on both my Chromebooks (HP 14 and c720) a number of times, and have never lost data on the stateful partition. I have replaced the SSD on both of them, however, so it could be hardware specific.
  - uyollti 12y ago
    Not exactly true, see https://sites.google.com/a/chromium.org/dev/chromium-os/developer-information-for-chrome-os-devices/workaround-for-battery-discharge-in-dev-mode https://sites.google.com/a/chromium.org/dev/chromium-os/deve...

driverdan 12y ago

How exactly does dual booting void your warranty?

sah88 12y ago
To properly dual boot without having this screen: http://imgur.com/wMtvgX3 http://imgur.com/wMtvgX3 (renabling wipes the hard drive) You have to remove a screw that voids the warranty and reflash the bios. That said, there could be some devices that don't have a write protect screw but every laptop I looked at had one.
- driverdan 12y ago
  This depends on which Chromebook you have.
- yebyen 12y ago
  Original Samsung ARM chromebook doesn't have any write protect screw, this is a device about which I have zero complaints so far. (I've owned it for only a few weeks so far.) I wish it came with a newer kernel, but all for reasons that "you can compile your own kernel" are really a valid response.

JohnTHaller 12y ago

It makes sense if you think of what the purpose of Chrome OS is. The point is not to make inexpensive hardware to run any OS on. The point is not to create a new general-purpose open OS that people can build on. The point is to get people to put there stuff in the Google Cloud to become bigger Google customers. Period. That's why they make it difficult to dual boot and allow all your files to be wiped with a single key. That's also why anything you do on the Chromebook before you login to Google for the first time isn't saved. The point is to make everything on the laptop appear impermanent and to get you to think of the cloud as the place your digital stuff is actually stored.

tankenmate 12y ago
The issue at hand isn't the purpose, it never was. It is how it limits the purpose of the user, even after Google benefited greatly from said users (everyone who uses open source software contributes to it, small or large; using, coding, documenting etc). "Hi! Mind helping us for a bit? Thanks for helping us. Now, how about you stop doing that stuff that is useful to you and start doing some stuff that is useful to us?" Not a very good narrative.
- philwelch 12y ago
  If you don't want a laptop that does what the Chromebook is designed to do, then don't buy a Chromebook. What's the big deal?
  - EpicEng 12y ago
    I doubt the parent will, for the very reasons s/he expressed. Should we not discuss things we don't like?
moonchrome 12y ago
I'm actually wondering why would people spend money on a chromebook - the hardware is crap and the price isn't that great. If I was looking for a cheap portable web browsing device I'd get something like : http://www.onda-tablet.com/onda-v975w-quad-core-win-8-tablet-9-7-inch-retina-screen-ram-2gb-wifi-32gb.html http://www.onda-tablet.com/onda-v975w-quad-core-win-8-tablet... - that's a 10 inch Windows 8.1 tablet with 2048*1536 resolution, quad core atom and 2 GB ram for 220$. Throw in 20$ and you can find a USB case with keyboard. Portable, better performance, better screen, can be used as a "internet machine" with Win 8.