4 ms·

Either way, differentiated companies -- apple -- require completely different strategies than nondifferentiated -- samsung. How is Apple differentiated? To a u

by personZ 12y ago

Either way, differentiated companies -- apple -- require completely different strategies than nondifferentiated -- samsung. How is Apple differentiated? To a user that wants a smartphone to send emails, visit websites, play fantasy football, take pictures, etc, Apple is every bit in competition with Xiaomi as Samsung is. To many, many users, smartphones are effectively a commodity now. Which is why Apple devices feature some of the best screens, the best cameras, the best processors. Any illusions that Apple isn't fighting the competitive fight, and hard, is just contrived nonsense. They are fighting damn hard to make a compelling case for their devices, and doing a good job at it. whereas Apple doesn't need (or want!) the bottom Apple still makes and sells the iPhone 4S, a three year old device. You can get this in the $200-ish range. Further most of Apple's pricing has been contingent upon the scam that are cell phone contracts, where right now you can get the iPhone 5, for instance, for "$0". That is, by most definitions, the "low end".

vinceguidry 12y ago
> Apple still makes and sells the iPhone 4S, a three year old device. You can get this in the $200-ish range. Further most of Apple's pricing has been contingent upon the scam that are cell phone contracts, where right now you can get the iPhone 5, for instance, for "$0". That is, by most definitions, the "low end". No, the consumers on the real low end of the cell phone market can't afford or can't get approved to have a contract. Most phone makers chase this market in some way, Apple doesn't.
- personZ 12y ago
  Most phone makers chase this market in some way, Apple doesn't. Except that they still make and sell the iPhone 4s. That is absolutely and undeniably chasing the "very low end" market (it's $199 no contract, which is pretty bottom tier). http://www.virginmobileusa.com/shop/cell-phones/iPhone4S-8GB-white-phone/features/ http://www.virginmobileusa.com/shop/cell-phones/iPhone4S-8GB... Now I suppose we can just keep arguing this down, but historically Samsung was "Chasing the low end" because their devices were $0 on a contract (ergo, in the $600 range. The iPhone 5s is currently $0 on a contract). Now that floor keeps falling, Apple is selling a $200 device, and we're still going to argue that they super don't care about the low end, and they're some sort of exclusive device despite burger flipping teenagers buying it?
blinkingled 12y ago
>How is Apple differentiated? Don't forget marketing. I don't think anyone plays the marketing game better than Apple. They are essentially marketing themselves as different and the fact that it works is nothing short of miraculous in the face of actuality!
- mwfunk 12y ago
  Samsung spends significantly more on marketing their mobile devices than Apple does. Not just a little more, a lot more [1]. Not just advertising, but deals with carriers to pay bonuses to retail staff for selling the devices. Microsoft doesn't spend quite as much promoting Windows Phone and the Surface, but it's still a lot more than Apple [2]. Marketing, at best, gets customers in the door. It doesn't generate brand loyalty or repeat customers, and marketing alone certainly doesn't sustain a company or product line for years (or decades!) on end. The "Apple is all marketing" trope is usually invoked in discussions that are more about tribalism than analysis, by otherwise-rational people making a conscious decision to not accept the fact that there are other rational people in the world who see value in things that they don't. I'm sure there's no shortage of people who will read this and immediately have a knee-jerk reaction along the lines of, "yeah, OK, maybe Apple spends way less on marketing than those other companies, but that just proves that they have magically effective marketing, because there's no other possible explanation for their success!" If there is a litmus test for rationality, they just failed it. A more plausible explanation is that success in business is a combination of a lot of different things- every company/tech/device/platform has a unique fingerprint of pros and cons that help it or hurt it in different market segments, and there is no perfect combination of any of those things. It's the ability to say, "I don't see value in this, but I can see how other people who care about different things might like it". This is an incredibly valuable ability to have, and people should be actively cultivating it if they want to make a positive difference in the industry. [1] http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887324096404578356651577771618 http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1000142412788732409640... [2] https://twitter.com/asymco/status/396253597551570944 https://twitter.com/asymco/status/396253597551570944
  - personZ 12y ago
beagle3 12y ago
Apple stopped selling it on their website. I heard they've stopped producing it and what you see in stores now is the remaining stock - what's your source that they're still making it? Furthermore, the virgin mobile link you gave is for no contract - but locked phone. While it's not comparable to $200-with-a-2-year-contract, it is also not comparable to an unlocked phone.
- personZ 12y ago
  Apple stopped selling it on their website. Most competitive makes don't sell their devices on their website at all. That really doesn't demonstrate anything. Not only does Apple still manufacture the 4S, they recently restarted production of the iPhone 4 (sans S) for the developing world. I would cite this, but you can find references everywhere and with ease, so that hardly seems necessary.
  - anewcolor 12y ago
    have a reference that isn't a rumor site?
  - beagle3 12y ago
    > Most competitive makes don't sell their devices on their website at all. That really doesn't demonstrate anything. And yet, Apple does, so it's a hint. They've been selling 4S on their website up until a month ago. > I would cite this, but you can find references everywhere and with ease, so that hardly seems necessary. It took you longer to write this than it would have to google a reference and post it. But then you would have noticed that (a) it is all rumors, and (b) it is from February - 8 months is a long long time in manufacturing.
    - personZ 12y ago
      And yet, Apple does, so it's a hint. Markets have segments. Apple decided to sell their 4S through other channels in the US (they still sell it on their site in Brazil, which I guess by your logic proves that they still manufacture it. That is a country of 200 million), likely to continue this absurd and so easily disproven myth, repeated in here, that they only chase the high end. But then you would have noticed that (a) it is all rumors, and (b) it is from February - 8 months is a long long time in manufacturing. It actually isn't hard at all, nor are they rumor sites. I'll give you a hint -- Apple moved all iPhone 4s and 4 production to a manufacturer called Pegatron. And before you implore me to provide the research for you, how about you demonstrate a single credible source that Apple ever stopped manufacturing it?

by personZ 12y ago

vinceguidry 12y ago

> Apple still makes and sells the iPhone 4S, a three year old device. You can get this in the $200-ish range. Further most of Apple's pricing has been contingent upon the scam that are cell phone contracts, where right now you can get the iPhone 5, for instance, for "$0". That is, by most definitions, the "low end". No, the consumers on the real low end of the cell phone market can't afford or can't get approved to have a contract. Most phone makers chase this market in some way, Apple doesn't.

personZ 12y ago
Most phone makers chase this market in some way, Apple doesn't. Except that they still make and sell the iPhone 4s. That is absolutely and undeniably chasing the "very low end" market (it's $199 no contract, which is pretty bottom tier). http://www.virginmobileusa.com/shop/cell-phones/iPhone4S-8GB-white-phone/features/ http://www.virginmobileusa.com/shop/cell-phones/iPhone4S-8GB... Now I suppose we can just keep arguing this down, but historically Samsung was "Chasing the low end" because their devices were $0 on a contract (ergo, in the $600 range. The iPhone 5s is currently $0 on a contract). Now that floor keeps falling, Apple is selling a $200 device, and we're still going to argue that they super don't care about the low end, and they're some sort of exclusive device despite burger flipping teenagers buying it?

blinkingled 12y ago

>How is Apple differentiated? Don't forget marketing. I don't think anyone plays the marketing game better than Apple. They are essentially marketing themselves as different and the fact that it works is nothing short of miraculous in the face of actuality!

mwfunk 12y ago
Samsung spends significantly more on marketing their mobile devices than Apple does. Not just a little more, a lot more [1]. Not just advertising, but deals with carriers to pay bonuses to retail staff for selling the devices. Microsoft doesn't spend quite as much promoting Windows Phone and the Surface, but it's still a lot more than Apple [2]. Marketing, at best, gets customers in the door. It doesn't generate brand loyalty or repeat customers, and marketing alone certainly doesn't sustain a company or product line for years (or decades!) on end. The "Apple is all marketing" trope is usually invoked in discussions that are more about tribalism than analysis, by otherwise-rational people making a conscious decision to not accept the fact that there are other rational people in the world who see value in things that they don't. I'm sure there's no shortage of people who will read this and immediately have a knee-jerk reaction along the lines of, "yeah, OK, maybe Apple spends way less on marketing than those other companies, but that just proves that they have magically effective marketing, because there's no other possible explanation for their success!" If there is a litmus test for rationality, they just failed it. A more plausible explanation is that success in business is a combination of a lot of different things- every company/tech/device/platform has a unique fingerprint of pros and cons that help it or hurt it in different market segments, and there is no perfect combination of any of those things. It's the ability to say, "I don't see value in this, but I can see how other people who care about different things might like it". This is an incredibly valuable ability to have, and people should be actively cultivating it if they want to make a positive difference in the industry. [1] http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887324096404578356651577771618 http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1000142412788732409640... [2] https://twitter.com/asymco/status/396253597551570944 https://twitter.com/asymco/status/396253597551570944
- personZ 12y ago

beagle3 12y ago

Apple stopped selling it on their website. I heard they've stopped producing it and what you see in stores now is the remaining stock - what's your source that they're still making it? Furthermore, the virgin mobile link you gave is for no contract - but locked phone. While it's not comparable to $200-with-a-2-year-contract, it is also not comparable to an unlocked phone.

personZ 12y ago
Apple stopped selling it on their website. Most competitive makes don't sell their devices on their website at all. That really doesn't demonstrate anything. Not only does Apple still manufacture the 4S, they recently restarted production of the iPhone 4 (sans S) for the developing world. I would cite this, but you can find references everywhere and with ease, so that hardly seems necessary.
- anewcolor 12y ago
  have a reference that isn't a rumor site?
- beagle3 12y ago
  > Most competitive makes don't sell their devices on their website at all. That really doesn't demonstrate anything. And yet, Apple does, so it's a hint. They've been selling 4S on their website up until a month ago. > I would cite this, but you can find references everywhere and with ease, so that hardly seems necessary. It took you longer to write this than it would have to google a reference and post it. But then you would have noticed that (a) it is all rumors, and (b) it is from February - 8 months is a long long time in manufacturing.
  - personZ 12y ago
    And yet, Apple does, so it's a hint. Markets have segments. Apple decided to sell their 4S through other channels in the US (they still sell it on their site in Brazil, which I guess by your logic proves that they still manufacture it. That is a country of 200 million), likely to continue this absurd and so easily disproven myth, repeated in here, that they only chase the high end. But then you would have noticed that (a) it is all rumors, and (b) it is from February - 8 months is a long long time in manufacturing. It actually isn't hard at all, nor are they rumor sites. I'll give you a hint -- Apple moved all iPhone 4s and 4 production to a manufacturer called Pegatron. And before you implore me to provide the research for you, how about you demonstrate a single credible source that Apple ever stopped manufacturing it?