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I am finding it hard to escape the conclusion that consciousness is a fundamental property of the universe that manifests in localized systems that feed back on
by A_COMPUTER 12y ago
I am finding it hard to escape the conclusion that consciousness is a fundamental property of the universe that manifests in localized systems that feed back on themselves. I have seen convincing evidence that consciousness is illusory based on experiments where it can be induced to make testably wrong feelings. But then you are right back to what it means that there's anything to perceive something even incorrectly, or the idea of an illusion without a thing having the illusion. I suppose this requires some sort of leap of language and understanding of the world, and I'm not clear you could do anything useful with that knowledge since it's impossible to experience anything as a human except subjectively. Arguing against consciousness seems to me like a religious person arguing that something had to create the universe or it wouldn't exist, to a scientist. The scientist can just say "I don't have to entertain explanations for why it shouldn't be here because the fact of its existence settles at least that much." this isn't an argument against studying consciousness or limiting theories about it, but it's not something that can be declared nonexistent.
- kazinator 12y agoBut if it's a fundamental property, why is it so easy to turn it off by falling asleep, or with anesthesia? Your brain regulates your body just fine, and can even solve problems, while your "self" goes away somewhere, temporarily.
- A_COMPUTER 12y agoI think that is in fact the simplest and most accessible evidence that it's an illusion. All I can say is that under sleep or anaesthesia there can be different degrees of awareness all the way down to just autonomic body response and life maintaining functions.
- themgt 12y agoIt's pretty important to distinguish between consciousness and a sense of identity or self. Self is pretty clearly is a constructed, somewhat illusory concept. Consciousness is not. You can turn off a light bulb. That doesn't mean the light isn't real.
- hliyan 12y agoNot to say I agree with A_COMPUTER's hypothesis, but if I did, I'd call it a fundamental phenomenon, not property. Gravity, while fundamental, will be near-zero when there is no masses nearby.