6 ms·

I'm frequently surprised by the lack of sidewalks everywhere outside of the downtown core of many cities. Perhaps its different in cities I haven't been to, but

I'm frequently surprised by the lack of sidewalks everywhere outside of the downtown core of many cities. Perhaps its different in cities I haven't been to, but compared to where I grew up in, it does seem like everywhere else is car-first. Its not just the states or even big cities, I've lived in a small town in Ontario that was similar. It makes me wonder if its related to the age of the area. Newer areas seem to have more sidewalks.

marcus_holmes 12y ago
I visited San Diego (I was living in the UK at the time, and found it impossible to get anywhere. I was routinely told that only poor people caught the bus (and it could be dangerous), and there were no pavements anywhere to walk on. I walked to the nearest burger place for lunch every day, a hellish 1-mile jaunt through rubbish-strewn wasteland getting beeped at every time I tried to cross a road. In contrast, every European and Australian city I've lived in has catered for pedestrians and cyclists to the extent that it's at least possible to walk or bike anywhere you need to go (even if it would take hours in these huge Aussie cities). I still wonder at it. How do Americans feel about living in such a shitty environment?
- UrMomReadsHN 12y ago
  I hate the "only poor people take the bus" vile bullshit prejudice and I've seen it here on Hacker News as well. "America" however is not one environment and is INCREDIBLY diverse. There are places such as you've described in the US as well. Not everywhere has such prejudice against public transit too. However I believe as a whole the US is (or at least was) moving in general to a society that revolves around the automobile. I'll tell you the absolute worst part of not being in an automobile is for me (as a woman) - the form of street harassment where assholes either beep at you or yell comments at you out the window going by. This has been a huge issue for me in every American city I ever lived in. Somehow people think this is appropriate behavior. It makes me not want to walk in a walkable area.
- praneshp 12y ago
  Where in San Diego were you? I am wondering if there is a place in that beautiful city that is rubbish strewn. It's got horrible public transport though, agreed.
  - marcus_holmes 12y ago
    It was a few years ago, so things may have changed. I was out in the suburbs a bit, staying with a friend (who worked and therefore couldn't give me lifts everywhere). The wasteland looked like it was eventually going to be more suburb, but wasn't actually a building site. I did find it weird that there were these patches of the city where just nothing was built. British cities are incredibly compact - if it's not built on or being built on then it's a manicured public park, usually fenced. But Aussie cities have odd areas that are just empty, too... must be the relative age of the cities that causes this.
  - dredmorbius 12y ago
    San Diego is a huge city in land area, 325 square miles -- 18 miles square. The actual geography is rather more varied than that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Diego#mediaviewer/File:San_Diego_County_California_Incorporated_and_Unincorporated_areas_San_Diego_Highlighted.svg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Diego#mediaviewer/File:San_... There are parts of it which are rather other than "beautiful".
- chc 12y ago
  Like most Americans, I have access to a car, so it's not a shitty environment. A place that caters to slow walkers and cyclists sounds worse to me. I think we tend to overrate inconveniences that affect us personally and underrate inconveniences that affect everyone else.
  - ta0967 12y ago
    > I think we tend to overrate inconveniences that affect us personally and underrate inconveniences that affect everyone else. that's true (everywhere). > A place that caters to slow walkers and cyclists sounds worse to me. and you're no exception.
    - chc 12y ago
      Well, yes, that was my explicit point.
  - markvdb 12y ago
    I think we tend to overrate _perceived_ inconveniences that affect us personally and underrate _perceived_ inconveniences that affect everyone else. Perceived because... A place that caters to slow walkers and cyclists, if minimally well designed, actually improves car traffic throughput. Yes, that may sound counterintuitive. Go look at Copenhagen. You'd never be able to squeeze so many people through so little transportation infrastructure if they were all traveling by car.
- Roboprog 12y ago
  That is one thing I have to give to Hyderabad (India). For all its faults, you could safely walk on the side of the streets around the office park during the day, and drivers gave you space instead of doing the ugly American "I'm gonna mow you down for daring to enter my road!" thing. Walking around at break to the street vendors was pretty cool, even if digestively perhaps risky :-)

marcus_holmes 12y ago

I visited San Diego (I was living in the UK at the time, and found it impossible to get anywhere. I was routinely told that only poor people caught the bus (and it could be dangerous), and there were no pavements anywhere to walk on. I walked to the nearest burger place for lunch every day, a hellish 1-mile jaunt through rubbish-strewn wasteland getting beeped at every time I tried to cross a road. In contrast, every European and Australian city I've lived in has catered for pedestrians and cyclists to the extent that it's at least possible to walk or bike anywhere you need to go (even if it would take hours in these huge Aussie cities). I still wonder at it. How do Americans feel about living in such a shitty environment?

UrMomReadsHN 12y ago
I hate the "only poor people take the bus" vile bullshit prejudice and I've seen it here on Hacker News as well. "America" however is not one environment and is INCREDIBLY diverse. There are places such as you've described in the US as well. Not everywhere has such prejudice against public transit too. However I believe as a whole the US is (or at least was) moving in general to a society that revolves around the automobile. I'll tell you the absolute worst part of not being in an automobile is for me (as a woman) - the form of street harassment where assholes either beep at you or yell comments at you out the window going by. This has been a huge issue for me in every American city I ever lived in. Somehow people think this is appropriate behavior. It makes me not want to walk in a walkable area.
praneshp 12y ago
Where in San Diego were you? I am wondering if there is a place in that beautiful city that is rubbish strewn. It's got horrible public transport though, agreed.
- marcus_holmes 12y ago
  It was a few years ago, so things may have changed. I was out in the suburbs a bit, staying with a friend (who worked and therefore couldn't give me lifts everywhere). The wasteland looked like it was eventually going to be more suburb, but wasn't actually a building site. I did find it weird that there were these patches of the city where just nothing was built. British cities are incredibly compact - if it's not built on or being built on then it's a manicured public park, usually fenced. But Aussie cities have odd areas that are just empty, too... must be the relative age of the cities that causes this.
- dredmorbius 12y ago
  San Diego is a huge city in land area, 325 square miles -- 18 miles square. The actual geography is rather more varied than that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Diego#mediaviewer/File:San_Diego_County_California_Incorporated_and_Unincorporated_areas_San_Diego_Highlighted.svg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Diego#mediaviewer/File:San_... There are parts of it which are rather other than "beautiful".
chc 12y ago
Like most Americans, I have access to a car, so it's not a shitty environment. A place that caters to slow walkers and cyclists sounds worse to me. I think we tend to overrate inconveniences that affect us personally and underrate inconveniences that affect everyone else.
- ta0967 12y ago
  > I think we tend to overrate inconveniences that affect us personally and underrate inconveniences that affect everyone else. that's true (everywhere). > A place that caters to slow walkers and cyclists sounds worse to me. and you're no exception.
  - chc 12y ago
    Well, yes, that was my explicit point.
- markvdb 12y ago
  I think we tend to overrate _perceived_ inconveniences that affect us personally and underrate _perceived_ inconveniences that affect everyone else. Perceived because... A place that caters to slow walkers and cyclists, if minimally well designed, actually improves car traffic throughput. Yes, that may sound counterintuitive. Go look at Copenhagen. You'd never be able to squeeze so many people through so little transportation infrastructure if they were all traveling by car.
Roboprog 12y ago
That is one thing I have to give to Hyderabad (India). For all its faults, you could safely walk on the side of the streets around the office park during the day, and drivers gave you space instead of doing the ugly American "I'm gonna mow you down for daring to enter my road!" thing. Walking around at break to the street vendors was pretty cool, even if digestively perhaps risky :-)