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assumes that the reader is a (straight) male Or it implies the writer is a straight male discussing his own experience, but who is incorrectly using the second

assumes that the reader is a (straight) male Or it implies the writer is a straight male discussing his own experience, but who is incorrectly using the second person. That's the most natural reading. I've observed that in my first drafts, I often (confusingly) switch between the first person, second person, and the mathematician's "we" ("we now integrate by parts to..."). I've also observed women will also sometimes use "you" when they mean "I", and I occasionally tease them by saying "I too think that dress will make my ass look great" (their reaction: [light punch] "you know what I mean you jerk"). Being consistent and correct takes effort that is incommensurate with the value of an HN comment. It's a bit silly that we've now declared certain grammatical errors, tones and voices to be secretly sexist.

davmre 12y ago
No one's claiming to have discovered secret sexism hidden deep in the OP's soul. Whatever the intent, the effect of these words is to assume a male audience and make women feel unwelcome. Maybe this effect seems like a secret because most guys are used to being the default audience. As a non-straight male, I can promise you it's jarring to read a comment and realize "this wasn't written for me". (it's not threatening or offensive, at least to me; I'm used to being in the minority and pretty secure about belonging in the tech world. But it's still very noticeable in a way that I think a lot of guys don't realize.) Anyway, we certainly have no right to expect total tense consistency in forum posts, though HN has historically had a higher writing-quality standard than most. But the second person in particular has the effect of assuming that the reader can empathize with a particular experience, and it's worth realizing that this can be off-putting when that experience excludes a sizeable fraction of your audience. It's not a criminal mistake. But it's worth avoiding, and easy to avoid as long as your mental picture of HN readership includes a few women.
- yummyfajitas 12y ago
  I'm a minority myself, at least in my current location. People have different experiences, and sometimes they describe an experience you can't relate to. If your experiences are uncommon, this will happen to you a lot more. Sorry, just how probability works. Feeling unwelcome is a choice on the part of the listener. Sometimes my friends discuss their parents attempting to arrange a marriage for them, assorted ceremonies, ragging, dowries, and similar things which I've never experienced. I can treat this as an opportunity to feel unwelcome, or I can treat it as an unfamiliar part of my friend's life that he chooses to share with me. I choose to do the latter even when they make grammar mistakes. And quite honestly, I think it would be a bit arrogant of me to demand that everyone in India change their behavior just to avoid reminders that I'm a minority. I guess the new maxim is "When in Rome, demand that Romans act like American tourists so we don't feel unwelcome."

davmre 12y ago

No one's claiming to have discovered secret sexism hidden deep in the OP's soul. Whatever the intent, the effect of these words is to assume a male audience and make women feel unwelcome. Maybe this effect seems like a secret because most guys are used to being the default audience. As a non-straight male, I can promise you it's jarring to read a comment and realize "this wasn't written for me". (it's not threatening or offensive, at least to me; I'm used to being in the minority and pretty secure about belonging in the tech world. But it's still very noticeable in a way that I think a lot of guys don't realize.) Anyway, we certainly have no right to expect total tense consistency in forum posts, though HN has historically had a higher writing-quality standard than most. But the second person in particular has the effect of assuming that the reader can empathize with a particular experience, and it's worth realizing that this can be off-putting when that experience excludes a sizeable fraction of your audience. It's not a criminal mistake. But it's worth avoiding, and easy to avoid as long as your mental picture of HN readership includes a few women.

yummyfajitas 12y ago
I'm a minority myself, at least in my current location. People have different experiences, and sometimes they describe an experience you can't relate to. If your experiences are uncommon, this will happen to you a lot more. Sorry, just how probability works. Feeling unwelcome is a choice on the part of the listener. Sometimes my friends discuss their parents attempting to arrange a marriage for them, assorted ceremonies, ragging, dowries, and similar things which I've never experienced. I can treat this as an opportunity to feel unwelcome, or I can treat it as an unfamiliar part of my friend's life that he chooses to share with me. I choose to do the latter even when they make grammar mistakes. And quite honestly, I think it would be a bit arrogant of me to demand that everyone in India change their behavior just to avoid reminders that I'm a minority. I guess the new maxim is "When in Rome, demand that Romans act like American tourists so we don't feel unwelcome."