3 ms·

I don't blame de Icaza for being hired by MS; I blame him for all the bloat to be found in each of his projects. He could be pure as whitest snow and MS would

I don't blame de Icaza for being hired by MS; I blame him for all the bloat to be found in each of his projects. He could be pure as whitest snow and MS would still be happy with how what he puts out slows down the Linux desktop experience.

mahmud 17y ago
Miguel gave his life to free software. He gave GNU its first desktop environment. If it wasn't for Miguel and his work there wouldn't be Redhat, Suse, Caldera, Mandarake, or any of the major corporate linux distros. Sun would never have bowed to Open Source, in fact, Sun would still be an independent entity in business. Novel would be in a different line of business. GNOME breathed fresh air into the Unix workstation and made it truly a commodity. Even Motif would have still been closed if it wasn't for the high quality code that Miguel et al where churning out both in GNOME and also in Gtk and its associated technologies. In 2001, Ximian was the hottest thing to run on a PC. If they put a price tag on it they could have sold it in custom boxes at $5k and would have had buyers, but it was free, and it was a Unix desktop you could install and upgrade by double clicking on an icon. Fucking gorgeous too.
- onedognight 17y ago
  > Miguel gave his life to free software. RMS's choice of the word traitor implies that he understands this and is only commenting on recent actions of Miguel's.
  - tjr 17y ago
    I imagine so. Miguel won an award from the FSF in 1999: http://www.gnu.org/award/1999/1999.html http://www.gnu.org/award/1999/1999.html
- bokchoi 17y ago
  > If it wasn't for Miguel and his work there wouldn't be Redhat, Suse, Caldera, Mandarake, or any of the major corporate linux distros. Bullshit. As if no one else could have created a linux desktop? There were already plenty of window managers at the time. The distance between a window manager and a "linux desktop" is pretty slim. > In 2001, Ximian was the hottest thing to run on a PC. If they put a price tag on it they could have sold it in custom boxes at $5k and would have had buyers, but it was free... And then Ximian died. Perhaps they should have sold it for $5k a box instead, hm?
  - mahmud 17y ago
    Bullshit. As if no one else could have created a linux desktop? There were already plenty of window managers at the time. The distance between a window manager and a "linux desktop" is pretty slim. There were plenty of Linux WMs but they didn't aspire to do anything more than what (fv)wm was doing and it was considered fancy to support ICCCM. X was big and bulky and it had to be accepted for what it was. Actually, most Linux users were happy with FWVM2 and other stuff, OpenLook and CDE were frowned upon as a corporate kludge, perhaps in sour grapes. The genius of GNOME was not just the delivery of a full Free desktop, first, but also the ballsy withdrawal from everything X. GNOME said we're gonna bring our own libraries and we're gonna supplant and supersede X. They brought in a display manager, session manager, input translator, etc. They didn't stop there but they also brought unorthodox, at least to unix, computing models: they brought a component object model with CORBA/Orbit. GNOME kept pushing the boundaries and for once defining what Linux should look like, not a poor man's SysV-clone, but a new desktop OS to be judged on its own. So much so that an early port to Solaris was the hottest thing on Sunfreeware.
    - freetard 17y ago
      You forgot about KDE, it was there before GNOME. And even when Qt was not GPL yet, there was a project to clone Qt.
deleted 17y ago
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mahmud 17y ago

Miguel gave his life to free software. He gave GNU its first desktop environment. If it wasn't for Miguel and his work there wouldn't be Redhat, Suse, Caldera, Mandarake, or any of the major corporate linux distros. Sun would never have bowed to Open Source, in fact, Sun would still be an independent entity in business. Novel would be in a different line of business. GNOME breathed fresh air into the Unix workstation and made it truly a commodity. Even Motif would have still been closed if it wasn't for the high quality code that Miguel et al where churning out both in GNOME and also in Gtk and its associated technologies. In 2001, Ximian was the hottest thing to run on a PC. If they put a price tag on it they could have sold it in custom boxes at $5k and would have had buyers, but it was free, and it was a Unix desktop you could install and upgrade by double clicking on an icon. Fucking gorgeous too.

onedognight 17y ago
> Miguel gave his life to free software. RMS's choice of the word traitor implies that he understands this and is only commenting on recent actions of Miguel's.
- tjr 17y ago
  I imagine so. Miguel won an award from the FSF in 1999: http://www.gnu.org/award/1999/1999.html http://www.gnu.org/award/1999/1999.html
bokchoi 17y ago
> If it wasn't for Miguel and his work there wouldn't be Redhat, Suse, Caldera, Mandarake, or any of the major corporate linux distros. Bullshit. As if no one else could have created a linux desktop? There were already plenty of window managers at the time. The distance between a window manager and a "linux desktop" is pretty slim. > In 2001, Ximian was the hottest thing to run on a PC. If they put a price tag on it they could have sold it in custom boxes at $5k and would have had buyers, but it was free... And then Ximian died. Perhaps they should have sold it for $5k a box instead, hm?
- mahmud 17y ago
  Bullshit. As if no one else could have created a linux desktop? There were already plenty of window managers at the time. The distance between a window manager and a "linux desktop" is pretty slim. There were plenty of Linux WMs but they didn't aspire to do anything more than what (fv)wm was doing and it was considered fancy to support ICCCM. X was big and bulky and it had to be accepted for what it was. Actually, most Linux users were happy with FWVM2 and other stuff, OpenLook and CDE were frowned upon as a corporate kludge, perhaps in sour grapes. The genius of GNOME was not just the delivery of a full Free desktop, first, but also the ballsy withdrawal from everything X. GNOME said we're gonna bring our own libraries and we're gonna supplant and supersede X. They brought in a display manager, session manager, input translator, etc. They didn't stop there but they also brought unorthodox, at least to unix, computing models: they brought a component object model with CORBA/Orbit. GNOME kept pushing the boundaries and for once defining what Linux should look like, not a poor man's SysV-clone, but a new desktop OS to be judged on its own. So much so that an early port to Solaris was the hottest thing on Sunfreeware.
  - freetard 17y ago
    You forgot about KDE, it was there before GNOME. And even when Qt was not GPL yet, there was a project to clone Qt.

deleted 17y ago

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