7 ms·

"“Ultimately, we want kids who are well regulated, who can use multiple cues from others to help decide what they should and shouldn’t do,” Repacholi said." Is

"“Ultimately, we want kids who are well regulated, who can use multiple cues from others to help decide what they should and shouldn’t do,” Repacholi said." Is that what we really want? Ultimately I´d hope that we raise kids that can listen to themselves as much as others, so they have some hope of guarding themselves from whatever neuroses the adults around them have picked up.

toast0 12y ago
Being able to observe behavior and predict results is clearly good. At a young age, avoiding angering strangers is probably good too. At any age, it's probably best to know in advance when you are likely to anger strangers, even if you choose to anger them.
- ZenoArrow 12y ago
  What you're talking about is emotional intelligence, what I'm talking about is self-reliance. There's some overlap, but they aren't the same thing.
  - jeffdavis 12y ago
    Self-reliance of toddlers? I guess you mean that they learn self-reliance faster by being less obedient? Not sure I follow the reasoning.
    - yebyen 12y ago
      I think he's talking about the premise of the original post, that children must depend on adults to get angry at them (and ostensibly, parents that don't get angry enough will have obnoxious children who don't know right from wrong.) Self-reliance, they can judge whether their actions are good or not without trying every bad action once and needing some adult to get angry at them in order to know which ones are bad. (you know, like our government. rimshot)
      - ZenoArrow 12y ago
        Yes, you understood what I meant. It's also true that people can sometimes show anger for no good reason, so it's about recognising this as well. It's about developing a balance between "sometimes I'm right" and "sometimes they're right".
thejdude 12y ago
With anything (IMHO), you should first learn to play by the rules. Later on you can learn/discover when to break them. But that takes experience and judgement, which little kids may not yet have.
swartkrans 12y ago
> Ultimately I´d hope that we raise kids that can listen to themselves as much as others This is about toddlers, not angsty youths fighting for independence from adults. Toddlers are entirely dependent on adults for their survival and require 24/7 supervision so being capable of listening to adults can be essential for their health and well being. Like staying away from pets, dangerous things on the ground and around the house. Most people have few if any memories of being a toddler. If you think a toddler should listen to themselves or disregard adults you haven't been around many toddlers. They eat dirt. They pull cat tails. They hit other kids in the head with toys. They have to have child locks in cars. They aren't making good decisions yet. > guarding themselves from whatever neuroses the adults around them have picked up. Yes adults are all horrible and flawed in some way, terrors to children everywhere. Always ruining their kids' lives. Forget about all those many years they spend laughing, worrying, working and working to ensure the well being of their child. All adults do is inflict emotional harm and poison the child's natural state of innocence, wonder and internal happiness that would last for eternity if only their parents weren't such terrible people.
- sarkhan 12y ago
  Not every toddler needs 24/7 supervision. At age of 15-18 months they understand consequences of basic behavior, and once they identify harming things, they avoid them by themselves. My 2 year child does not touch cup with hot tea for 6 months now, and warns us that it is hot. She recognizes spicy and avoids it. And much more similar behavior. I strongly believe that toddlers need not so much supervision and more free time/will. It will help them to become more self-sufficient person in future. Edit: I'm not saying parent should not spend time with toddler teaching him/her. I'm saying toddler does not need 24/7 supervision. You don't want to grow a person who can't live without supervision.
  - grayclhn 12y ago
    Or scalded and illiterate. It's a tossup. :)
  - swartkrans 12y ago
    > Not every toddler needs 24/7 supervision Yes, every toddler needs 24/7 supervision. > and once they identify harming things Some of those harming things are really bad, even life threatening. > I strongly believe that toddlers need not so much supervision and more free time/will. It will help them to become more self-sufficient person in future. I doubt any of this is true, and I worry for the safety of your child. > and more free time/will. When my daughter was a toddler, she didn't want to be alone, she wanted to be, and she still always wants to be with someone. I have never heard of a toddler that wants free time. More like parents want free time and don't get any. Children at that young age need a lot of attention, caring and love, they should not be alone, like ever only nowadays many parents are too busy staring at their phones to notice.
ap22213 12y ago
From his birth, I tried very hard to let my son criticize and challenge me and also other adults. I tried to teach him to negotiate for what he wants and that things should be quid pro quo. This has greatly frustrated many adults (and me at times). But, I have always thought it an awesome thing to challenge authority. Along with this, I also tried to teach him to understand how fortunate he is and to be generous and truly empathetic to others. Now, he's almost a teenager and still a wonderful, caring kid. We'll see how this experiment turns out.
snowwrestler 12y ago
> Ultimately I´d hope that we raise kids that can listen to themselves as much as others, so they have some hope of guarding themselves from whatever neuroses the adults around them have picked up. Yes, but these inside voices don't just appear out of nowhere. They are shaped by how children are raised from the time they are toddlers. We want kids who know right from wrong and are not afraid to act rightly instead of wrongly, even in the face of peer pressure. Most of these qualities are teachable.
- ZenoArrow 12y ago
  "We want kids who know right from wrong and are not afraid to act rightly instead of wrongly, even in the face of peer pressure. Most of these qualities are teachable." Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying, except I recognise pressure isn't just from peers. I'm advocating teaching self-reliance on order to guard against undeserved pressure, no matter the source.

toast0 12y ago

Being able to observe behavior and predict results is clearly good. At a young age, avoiding angering strangers is probably good too. At any age, it's probably best to know in advance when you are likely to anger strangers, even if you choose to anger them.

ZenoArrow 12y ago
What you're talking about is emotional intelligence, what I'm talking about is self-reliance. There's some overlap, but they aren't the same thing.
- jeffdavis 12y ago
  Self-reliance of toddlers? I guess you mean that they learn self-reliance faster by being less obedient? Not sure I follow the reasoning.
  - yebyen 12y ago
    I think he's talking about the premise of the original post, that children must depend on adults to get angry at them (and ostensibly, parents that don't get angry enough will have obnoxious children who don't know right from wrong.) Self-reliance, they can judge whether their actions are good or not without trying every bad action once and needing some adult to get angry at them in order to know which ones are bad. (you know, like our government. rimshot)
    - ZenoArrow 12y ago
      Yes, you understood what I meant. It's also true that people can sometimes show anger for no good reason, so it's about recognising this as well. It's about developing a balance between "sometimes I'm right" and "sometimes they're right".

thejdude 12y ago

With anything (IMHO), you should first learn to play by the rules. Later on you can learn/discover when to break them. But that takes experience and judgement, which little kids may not yet have.

swartkrans 12y ago

> Ultimately I´d hope that we raise kids that can listen to themselves as much as others This is about toddlers, not angsty youths fighting for independence from adults. Toddlers are entirely dependent on adults for their survival and require 24/7 supervision so being capable of listening to adults can be essential for their health and well being. Like staying away from pets, dangerous things on the ground and around the house. Most people have few if any memories of being a toddler. If you think a toddler should listen to themselves or disregard adults you haven't been around many toddlers. They eat dirt. They pull cat tails. They hit other kids in the head with toys. They have to have child locks in cars. They aren't making good decisions yet. > guarding themselves from whatever neuroses the adults around them have picked up. Yes adults are all horrible and flawed in some way, terrors to children everywhere. Always ruining their kids' lives. Forget about all those many years they spend laughing, worrying, working and working to ensure the well being of their child. All adults do is inflict emotional harm and poison the child's natural state of innocence, wonder and internal happiness that would last for eternity if only their parents weren't such terrible people.

sarkhan 12y ago
Not every toddler needs 24/7 supervision. At age of 15-18 months they understand consequences of basic behavior, and once they identify harming things, they avoid them by themselves. My 2 year child does not touch cup with hot tea for 6 months now, and warns us that it is hot. She recognizes spicy and avoids it. And much more similar behavior. I strongly believe that toddlers need not so much supervision and more free time/will. It will help them to become more self-sufficient person in future. Edit: I'm not saying parent should not spend time with toddler teaching him/her. I'm saying toddler does not need 24/7 supervision. You don't want to grow a person who can't live without supervision.
- grayclhn 12y ago
  Or scalded and illiterate. It's a tossup. :)
- swartkrans 12y ago
  > Not every toddler needs 24/7 supervision Yes, every toddler needs 24/7 supervision. > and once they identify harming things Some of those harming things are really bad, even life threatening. > I strongly believe that toddlers need not so much supervision and more free time/will. It will help them to become more self-sufficient person in future. I doubt any of this is true, and I worry for the safety of your child. > and more free time/will. When my daughter was a toddler, she didn't want to be alone, she wanted to be, and she still always wants to be with someone. I have never heard of a toddler that wants free time. More like parents want free time and don't get any. Children at that young age need a lot of attention, caring and love, they should not be alone, like ever only nowadays many parents are too busy staring at their phones to notice.

ap22213 12y ago

From his birth, I tried very hard to let my son criticize and challenge me and also other adults. I tried to teach him to negotiate for what he wants and that things should be quid pro quo. This has greatly frustrated many adults (and me at times). But, I have always thought it an awesome thing to challenge authority. Along with this, I also tried to teach him to understand how fortunate he is and to be generous and truly empathetic to others. Now, he's almost a teenager and still a wonderful, caring kid. We'll see how this experiment turns out.

snowwrestler 12y ago

> Ultimately I´d hope that we raise kids that can listen to themselves as much as others, so they have some hope of guarding themselves from whatever neuroses the adults around them have picked up. Yes, but these inside voices don't just appear out of nowhere. They are shaped by how children are raised from the time they are toddlers. We want kids who know right from wrong and are not afraid to act rightly instead of wrongly, even in the face of peer pressure. Most of these qualities are teachable.

ZenoArrow 12y ago
"We want kids who know right from wrong and are not afraid to act rightly instead of wrongly, even in the face of peer pressure. Most of these qualities are teachable." Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying, except I recognise pressure isn't just from peers. I'm advocating teaching self-reliance on order to guard against undeserved pressure, no matter the source.