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And although this makes collusion more difficult, how does your plan prevent it? How can I, with my password and keys in my own controls, prevent rogue FBI agen

by delinka 12y ago

And although this makes collusion more difficult, how does your plan prevent it? How can I, with my password and keys in my own controls, prevent rogue FBI agents colluding with corporate employees (through brides, blackmail, intimidation) and frightened judges ("can't let the terrorists win!" even though no one's convicted yet) from accessing my data that ultimately they have no business accessing? We've seen law enforcement abuse every form of power they've been handed (see National Security Letters for one example), so I don't trust them to Do What's Right. Ever.

AceJohnny2 12y ago
> through brides Russian brides I suppose, in the context of this discussion?
- Omniusaspirer 12y ago
  I know you're probably just making a joke here but if not I believe he meant to say "bribes".
jordanpg 12y ago
Sometimes it seems like the entire Snowden debate is ultimately reducible to one's belief about this. In a phrase, one's belief that given N people with power P, q will eventually abuse it. I think that as N grows, the probability that q >= 1 approaches 1. It strikes me as a self-evident feature of human nature.
- j42 12y ago
  Actually I think power is more a force than a proclivity... Given the infamous Stanford prison experiment and now this, I wouldn't classify it as 'definitive' but the correlation is well demonstrated. [source] http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1048984314000800 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1048984314...
csandreasen 12y ago
You don't prevent it. That's the thing about security - there is never a such thing as 100% secure. The key is coming up with reasonable expectations and implementing policies to mitigate the risk down to an acceptable level, [EDIT]then putting measures in place to limit damage if those measures do fail[/EDIT]. If I were a third party with access to your device, I could brute force the encryption. There is nothing you can do about it - I will eventually get your password; the trick is whether it will take me a few minutes or a few decades. What's an acceptable time frame to protect the data on your personal cell phone? Do you care if I get the personal data on it 20 years from now or have to spend $2 million in computing power to get it? Unlike me stealing your data, there are very legitimate reasons for law enforcement to have access to devices to carry out investigations. The warrant requirement is a check on abuse. If there's an issue regarding abuse of power (e.g.: bribing employees, intimidating judges, overly broad laws), it would be better for everyone to work to address the real problems than taking away means for law enforcement to investigate actual criminals.

by delinka 12y ago

AceJohnny2 12y ago

> through brides Russian brides I suppose, in the context of this discussion?

Omniusaspirer 12y ago
I know you're probably just making a joke here but if not I believe he meant to say "bribes".

jordanpg 12y ago

Sometimes it seems like the entire Snowden debate is ultimately reducible to one's belief about this. In a phrase, one's belief that given N people with power P, q will eventually abuse it. I think that as N grows, the probability that q >= 1 approaches 1. It strikes me as a self-evident feature of human nature.

j42 12y ago
Actually I think power is more a force than a proclivity... Given the infamous Stanford prison experiment and now this, I wouldn't classify it as 'definitive' but the correlation is well demonstrated. [source] http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1048984314000800 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1048984314...

csandreasen 12y ago

You don't prevent it. That's the thing about security - there is never a such thing as 100% secure. The key is coming up with reasonable expectations and implementing policies to mitigate the risk down to an acceptable level, [EDIT]then putting measures in place to limit damage if those measures do fail[/EDIT]. If I were a third party with access to your device, I could brute force the encryption. There is nothing you can do about it - I will eventually get your password; the trick is whether it will take me a few minutes or a few decades. What's an acceptable time frame to protect the data on your personal cell phone? Do you care if I get the personal data on it 20 years from now or have to spend $2 million in computing power to get it? Unlike me stealing your data, there are very legitimate reasons for law enforcement to have access to devices to carry out investigations. The warrant requirement is a check on abuse. If there's an issue regarding abuse of power (e.g.: bribing employees, intimidating judges, overly broad laws), it would be better for everyone to work to address the real problems than taking away means for law enforcement to investigate actual criminals.