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You certainly appear to have the popular view that creating massively distributed grids of power that can meet base load demand is a simple hand-wave away. The

by brc 12y ago

You certainly appear to have the popular view that creating massively distributed grids of power that can meet base load demand is a simple hand-wave away. The fact is, a volatile generating capacity is a bad thing to have. There is no cost effective way for wind/solar to store energy - sure, solar is great at producing peak demand energy in suitable climates - but you cannot run factories and hospitals and large building climate control on such variable inputs. I realise that a lot of folk love to talk about 'there's always wind blowing and sun shining' - of course it is true - but these fantasy grids are always designed out on a piece of paper with no regards to cost of construction and therefore cost of the ongoing power. Unless you can force every country in the world to adopt similar systems, any country that adopts such expensive systems will certainly find themselves in serious financial trouble as all their industry will move to lower-cost places of production. As has already been pointed out - it's not the total cost, it's the cost per lifetime generation that counts. That's where large scale but capital intensive generation wins out -it can produce lots of energy over a long period at fixed rates and lock in contracts on the same. However, the volatility of the market makes these more difficult to justify. This is a bad thing, particularly where it has been caused by government intervention into the marketplace for energy.

crdoconnor 12y ago
>You certainly appear to have the popular view that creating massively distributed grids of power that can meet base load demand is a simple hand-wave away. You'd be wrong. I'm well aware that it will require significant investment and a retrofit to accommodate this. >The fact is, a volatile generating capacity is a bad thing to have. For our current grid, which our current operators have zero interest in upgrading because they're quite happy running a monopoly with minimal investment expenditure. You're okay with this too I see? >Unless you can force every country in the world to adopt similar systems, any country that adopts such expensive systems will certainly find themselves in serious financial trouble as all their industry will move to lower-cost places of production. Yes, well, we're well overdue an overhaul of our trade policy and treaties that explicitly encourages and condones this behavior. Unfortunately too many people like you treat these treaties (like TTIP or CAFTA) as immutable facts of life. They can and ultimately will be reversed one day, just electricity can and ultimately will be sourced entirely from renewable energy. The question is simply when. >As has already been pointed out - it's not the total cost, it's the cost per lifetime generation that counts. That's where large scale but capital intensive generation wins out Not really. Most forms of capital intensive power generation enjoy lavish subsidies on top of being highly polluting and still manage to only be (currently) a bit cheaper than renewables. By contrast those cheap solar panels imported from China? 30% tariff.

by brc 12y ago

crdoconnor 12y ago

>You certainly appear to have the popular view that creating massively distributed grids of power that can meet base load demand is a simple hand-wave away. You'd be wrong. I'm well aware that it will require significant investment and a retrofit to accommodate this. >The fact is, a volatile generating capacity is a bad thing to have. For our current grid, which our current operators have zero interest in upgrading because they're quite happy running a monopoly with minimal investment expenditure. You're okay with this too I see? >Unless you can force every country in the world to adopt similar systems, any country that adopts such expensive systems will certainly find themselves in serious financial trouble as all their industry will move to lower-cost places of production. Yes, well, we're well overdue an overhaul of our trade policy and treaties that explicitly encourages and condones this behavior. Unfortunately too many people like you treat these treaties (like TTIP or CAFTA) as immutable facts of life. They can and ultimately will be reversed one day, just electricity can and ultimately will be sourced entirely from renewable energy. The question is simply when. >As has already been pointed out - it's not the total cost, it's the cost per lifetime generation that counts. That's where large scale but capital intensive generation wins out Not really. Most forms of capital intensive power generation enjoy lavish subsidies on top of being highly polluting and still manage to only be (currently) a bit cheaper than renewables. By contrast those cheap solar panels imported from China? 30% tariff.