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I live in NYC and think that something like this here would only solve one of the major problems we have with Airbnb. If it is enforced, the 90-day cap should b

I live in NYC and think that something like this here would only solve one of the major problems we have with Airbnb. If it is enforced, the 90-day cap should be enough to keep apartments from being taken off the market during a housing crisis so they can be used as full-time hotels. That is really important, because it is the more affordable apartments that are most vulnerable to this, since they don't usually have a doorman or a landlord that is likely to care that much. The problem it doesn't solve, however, is the fact that hotel guests shouldn't be staying in apartment buildings unattended by a host anyway. It creates terrible problems for people who are actually trying to live there, since Airbnb guests will treat your building like a hotel. I would much prefer that a host always be required to be present if the rental in question is an apartment.

bradleyjg 12y ago
It doesn't sound like they have a realistic plan to enforce the 90 day limit. This strange right of action for 5 year old non-profits, that can only seek an injunction and can only go after some subset of violators does not seem like it will be very useful. They should have created a private right of action sounding in nuisance, with damages available, and open to any affected party. And maybe a loser pays provision.
- pyrophane 12y ago
  That is a shame. We technically already have a law here banning short-term subleasing for under 30-days if the tenant isn't present, which makes the vast majority of these full-time Airbnb hotels illegal. The only problem is that no one is enforcing it, so it is barely better than having no law at all.
  - apaprocki 12y ago
    And it's worth mentioning that even if the tenant is present, condo/co-op boards are free to ban the practice and I would be shocked if most don't -- we do. There are practically no single residential dwellings in NYC -- anything in a multiple dwelling building is subject to the rules put forth by the condo/co-op board.
  - pbreit 12y ago
    Allowing it to be an evictable offense should be sufficient.
wdewind 12y ago
There is an extremely simple solution that AirBnB will forever refuse to do: simply build a function that allows me to search for AirBnBs by address and file a complaint should I need to do so. As far as I can tell this + feedback provides a level of regulation that is a pretty decent compromise. I've been adversely affected by people AirBnBing in my building but I'm not against the overall premise of it, they just need some kind of system that allows people who are currently affected but outside of AirBnB to provide feedback. Of course this would totally shrink their market size over night but...
- psaintla 12y ago
  I think the bigger problem is that it would allow competitors or just people who are assholes to file unfounded complaints. I don't think much good would come of such a system.
  - wdewind 12y ago
    I think there would certainly be things to iron out but the burden is on them to provide a system of regulation that works. Currently they aren't. Regardless I don't think the two problems you mentioned are insurmountable for a $10B company by any means.
    - psaintla 12y ago
      I believe it isn't insurmountable but any possible solution would be unreasonable. You're asking for a system to be put in place but you have no ideas regarding implementation. If you think about the problem you'll realize how ridiculous any solutions would be. The biggest problem is verification of complaints, how do you do that?
      - wdewind 12y ago
        You're proposing that my solution wouldn't work. Maybe, but your opinion is based on just as little data as mine is, so neither is more valid. I still think my system would work fine, and this is based on helping work on systems similar to this in the past, but that's not really the point. I want to reiterate that while I provided what I think is a relatively easy and doable approach, the burden is not on people negatively impacted by a company to come up with solutions. The simple fact is that most metropolitan areas do not allow short term rentals in residential neighborhoods as a matter of zoning, not to mention the fact that many leases prohibit subleasing of any kind. AirBnB allows a ton of illegal activity to happen on its network, and then claims it has no easy way to enforce the law. That may or may not be true, but it's like telling a bank that is laundering money that it's not responsible for fixing the money laundering problem because detecting it is expensive, and hey, they're just the platform right?
apaprocki 12y ago
Can't agree enough. I serve on my condo board and we have had nothing but problems from Airbnb rentals. Aside from going against city laws, our by-laws / rules explicitly forbid it. Because of a lack of care, we're left to trolling listings in the area looking for pictures that match the finishes in our building in order to track down an ad if we have a sense that someone is renting it out.
- gcv 12y ago
  Have Airbnb guests been an actual problem, or is this a pure Not In My Building reaction?
  - apaprocki 12y ago
    Yes, we have had guests throw parties, litter trash, throw bottles and cigarettes off the roof, and cause damage.
  - pbreit 12y ago
    It should be pretty obvious to anyone that short term renters are undesirable for a variety of legitimate reasons. Which is why no landlords or HOAs allow them. None.
  - aestra 12y ago
    Here's some guests who caused some problems. http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-airbnb-party-house-glendale-20140106-story.html http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-airbnb-party-hou... http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/unexpected-sex-party-destroys-pricy-chelsea-apartment-article-1.1723825 http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/unexpected-sex-party-des... http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Md-Man-Says-Airbnb-Guests-Hosted-Large-Party-Trashed-Home-268205362.html http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Md-Man-Says-Airbnb-G... http://www.businessinsider.com/how-an-airbnb-guest-trashed-a-penthouse-2014-3?op=1 http://www.businessinsider.com/how-an-airbnb-guest-trashed-a...

bradleyjg 12y ago

It doesn't sound like they have a realistic plan to enforce the 90 day limit. This strange right of action for 5 year old non-profits, that can only seek an injunction and can only go after some subset of violators does not seem like it will be very useful. They should have created a private right of action sounding in nuisance, with damages available, and open to any affected party. And maybe a loser pays provision.

pyrophane 12y ago
That is a shame. We technically already have a law here banning short-term subleasing for under 30-days if the tenant isn't present, which makes the vast majority of these full-time Airbnb hotels illegal. The only problem is that no one is enforcing it, so it is barely better than having no law at all.
- apaprocki 12y ago
  And it's worth mentioning that even if the tenant is present, condo/co-op boards are free to ban the practice and I would be shocked if most don't -- we do. There are practically no single residential dwellings in NYC -- anything in a multiple dwelling building is subject to the rules put forth by the condo/co-op board.
- pbreit 12y ago
  Allowing it to be an evictable offense should be sufficient.

wdewind 12y ago

There is an extremely simple solution that AirBnB will forever refuse to do: simply build a function that allows me to search for AirBnBs by address and file a complaint should I need to do so. As far as I can tell this + feedback provides a level of regulation that is a pretty decent compromise. I've been adversely affected by people AirBnBing in my building but I'm not against the overall premise of it, they just need some kind of system that allows people who are currently affected but outside of AirBnB to provide feedback. Of course this would totally shrink their market size over night but...

psaintla 12y ago
I think the bigger problem is that it would allow competitors or just people who are assholes to file unfounded complaints. I don't think much good would come of such a system.
- wdewind 12y ago
  I think there would certainly be things to iron out but the burden is on them to provide a system of regulation that works. Currently they aren't. Regardless I don't think the two problems you mentioned are insurmountable for a $10B company by any means.
  - psaintla 12y ago
    I believe it isn't insurmountable but any possible solution would be unreasonable. You're asking for a system to be put in place but you have no ideas regarding implementation. If you think about the problem you'll realize how ridiculous any solutions would be. The biggest problem is verification of complaints, how do you do that?
    - wdewind 12y ago
      You're proposing that my solution wouldn't work. Maybe, but your opinion is based on just as little data as mine is, so neither is more valid. I still think my system would work fine, and this is based on helping work on systems similar to this in the past, but that's not really the point. I want to reiterate that while I provided what I think is a relatively easy and doable approach, the burden is not on people negatively impacted by a company to come up with solutions. The simple fact is that most metropolitan areas do not allow short term rentals in residential neighborhoods as a matter of zoning, not to mention the fact that many leases prohibit subleasing of any kind. AirBnB allows a ton of illegal activity to happen on its network, and then claims it has no easy way to enforce the law. That may or may not be true, but it's like telling a bank that is laundering money that it's not responsible for fixing the money laundering problem because detecting it is expensive, and hey, they're just the platform right?

apaprocki 12y ago

Can't agree enough. I serve on my condo board and we have had nothing but problems from Airbnb rentals. Aside from going against city laws, our by-laws / rules explicitly forbid it. Because of a lack of care, we're left to trolling listings in the area looking for pictures that match the finishes in our building in order to track down an ad if we have a sense that someone is renting it out.

gcv 12y ago
Have Airbnb guests been an actual problem, or is this a pure Not In My Building reaction?
- apaprocki 12y ago
  Yes, we have had guests throw parties, litter trash, throw bottles and cigarettes off the roof, and cause damage.
- pbreit 12y ago
  It should be pretty obvious to anyone that short term renters are undesirable for a variety of legitimate reasons. Which is why no landlords or HOAs allow them. None.
- aestra 12y ago
  Here's some guests who caused some problems. http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-airbnb-party-house-glendale-20140106-story.html http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-airbnb-party-hou... http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/unexpected-sex-party-destroys-pricy-chelsea-apartment-article-1.1723825 http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/unexpected-sex-party-des... http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Md-Man-Says-Airbnb-Guests-Hosted-Large-Party-Trashed-Home-268205362.html http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Md-Man-Says-Airbnb-G... http://www.businessinsider.com/how-an-airbnb-guest-trashed-a-penthouse-2014-3?op=1 http://www.businessinsider.com/how-an-airbnb-guest-trashed-a...