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The ridiculous number of features on this card makes it really hard to believe that an unknown startup has the resources to pull it off in the form factor as th

The ridiculous number of features on this card makes it really hard to believe that an unknown startup has the resources to pull it off in the form factor as thin as a credit card. Coin still hasn't gotten there yet (they claim it works at 85% of the locations they visited). Adding more features including wireless charging coils and unknown method for duplicating chip and pin makes me really skeptical that this will ever make it to market.

3327 12y ago
Great point... Honestly it looks great but the feature set is out of this world. Wireless charging, NFC, proximity. I mean WOW. If they deliver on all of them and are hitting it all those targets lets get them to work on the manned mission to Mars.
bradfa 12y ago
The microcontroller, smart card interface, eInk screen, bluetooth capability (including antenna), NFC (including antenna), and touch screen all seem reasonable and there isn't anything earth shattering tech wise (but probably a customized asic using off the shelf bits). Connecting this all together on some fiberglass or plastic substrate is hard, and expensive to tool for (I'd expect), but definitely possible. The interesting bit is how they're fitting the battery and getting anything remotely like reasonable life. Even down in the single digit micro-Amp consumption range (typical for low power microcontrollers plus some resistive touch), a battery small enough to fit inside a credit card will likely only have a few mAh, at best. This will lead to needing to recharge quite often if the bluetooth turns on or eInk screen updates more than once in a blue-moon.
- JTon 12y ago
  In the tech specs they claim a 30-day charge. No other details. I wonder if that's the equivalent of a cellphone "standby" spec.
  - mrkickling 12y ago
    Well, E-ink uses very little battery. The e-reader I use has to be charged only every other month or every month if I read more often. But then again this little card couldn't have a very powerful battery in it.
    - retroencabulato 12y ago
      And what about using Bluetooth to detect when the card is lost? That sounds awfully power hungry for this form factor.
- penprog 12y ago
  You really believe you can fit an eink display, a touch screen digitizer, a microcontroller, bluetooth and nfc on a card that thin and sell it for 155 dollars?
  - rtpg 12y ago
    I'm pretty sure nfc can be passive, the e-ink display doesn't use energy when not changing, and the "touch screen digitizer" could just be a button that is actually a contact (i.e. most of the time the microcontroller is passive). Also, you could make the card thicker in areas where it doesn't matter (away from the stripe and the PIN
    - jrockway 12y ago
      You can't, actually. Consider things like the ATMs that suck in the entire card, or things like Metrocard vending machines that require you to insert the credit card in a slot.
      - rtpg 12y ago
        ah, good point on the ATMs, I stand corrected (imagine this card getting stuck in an ATM, suddenly all your cards are lost)
      - tripzilch 12y ago
        Really good point. I doubt they'll ever[0] be able to put all that tech into a card that's actually as thin as a credit card that fits in an ATM. But if they can do that, I want one, not to pay with, but for the programmable eInk screen with bluetooth connectivity (and touch? get real). Then I'd hook it into my phone, that would somehow detect who is nearby/looking at it, reverse/stalk their social networks, local graph, location/environment context, little bit of magic, cold reading and random guesswork. It would show exactly whatever they wanted/expected to see. I'd have hacked myself a piece of Doctor Who's psychic paper. [0] or at least for a few years :)
      - robin_reala 12y ago
        Cash machines have to deal with raised numerals. You could at least make it as thick as card + raised digits all over.
- TrevorJ 12y ago
  I'm extremely skeptical that this will work as well: they say you can remotely lock the card which would require some kind of bluetooth polling to your phone at a pretty regular interval and I doubt battery life is going to allow for that.
timdorr 12y ago
Also, the fact that their home page video features some poorly motion-tracked simulated display. That alone instills some fear in me that this is just complete vaporware.
- eclipxe 12y ago
  Of course it is vaporware. They're trying to prove the market exists, sell the product up front, then go build it. Will it ever ship or be remotely as thin and svelte as this mockup? I'm guessing no, but if they pull it off, kudos.
  - ahomescu1 12y ago
    This is what people usually use Kickstarter or Indiegogo for.
    - eclipxe 12y ago
      Or Hackernews :-)
    - ksherlock 12y ago
      With the updated hardware rules (show a prototype, no photorealistic renderings), this isn't even kickstarter material. https://www.kickstarter.com/rules/prototypes https://www.kickstarter.com/rules/prototypes
  - jedmeyers 12y ago
    You are telling this as if "go build it" is the least important part.
    - eclipxe 12y ago
      No, it is the most important and hardest part. My point about it ever shipping or being as good as the promo video alludes to this. It's easy(ish) to create a slick landing page and quirky video demo, it's hard as hell to make a product.
ilanco 12y ago
Although the product looks very attractive, I doubt they will be able to pull it off. This line from their TOS should be a little worrying: "We are engaging in a new industry, and there is no assurance that the products and Services will contain all of the characteristics set forth herein or in our marketing materials."
Shivetya 12y ago
i still question the need with smartphones and NFC.. its like too little too late

3327 12y ago

Great point... Honestly it looks great but the feature set is out of this world. Wireless charging, NFC, proximity. I mean WOW. If they deliver on all of them and are hitting it all those targets lets get them to work on the manned mission to Mars.

bradfa 12y ago

The microcontroller, smart card interface, eInk screen, bluetooth capability (including antenna), NFC (including antenna), and touch screen all seem reasonable and there isn't anything earth shattering tech wise (but probably a customized asic using off the shelf bits). Connecting this all together on some fiberglass or plastic substrate is hard, and expensive to tool for (I'd expect), but definitely possible. The interesting bit is how they're fitting the battery and getting anything remotely like reasonable life. Even down in the single digit micro-Amp consumption range (typical for low power microcontrollers plus some resistive touch), a battery small enough to fit inside a credit card will likely only have a few mAh, at best. This will lead to needing to recharge quite often if the bluetooth turns on or eInk screen updates more than once in a blue-moon.

JTon 12y ago
In the tech specs they claim a 30-day charge. No other details. I wonder if that's the equivalent of a cellphone "standby" spec.
- mrkickling 12y ago
  Well, E-ink uses very little battery. The e-reader I use has to be charged only every other month or every month if I read more often. But then again this little card couldn't have a very powerful battery in it.
  - retroencabulato 12y ago
    And what about using Bluetooth to detect when the card is lost? That sounds awfully power hungry for this form factor.
penprog 12y ago
You really believe you can fit an eink display, a touch screen digitizer, a microcontroller, bluetooth and nfc on a card that thin and sell it for 155 dollars?
- rtpg 12y ago
  I'm pretty sure nfc can be passive, the e-ink display doesn't use energy when not changing, and the "touch screen digitizer" could just be a button that is actually a contact (i.e. most of the time the microcontroller is passive). Also, you could make the card thicker in areas where it doesn't matter (away from the stripe and the PIN
  - jrockway 12y ago
    You can't, actually. Consider things like the ATMs that suck in the entire card, or things like Metrocard vending machines that require you to insert the credit card in a slot.
    - rtpg 12y ago
      ah, good point on the ATMs, I stand corrected (imagine this card getting stuck in an ATM, suddenly all your cards are lost)
    - tripzilch 12y ago
      Really good point. I doubt they'll ever[0] be able to put all that tech into a card that's actually as thin as a credit card that fits in an ATM. But if they can do that, I want one, not to pay with, but for the programmable eInk screen with bluetooth connectivity (and touch? get real). Then I'd hook it into my phone, that would somehow detect who is nearby/looking at it, reverse/stalk their social networks, local graph, location/environment context, little bit of magic, cold reading and random guesswork. It would show exactly whatever they wanted/expected to see. I'd have hacked myself a piece of Doctor Who's psychic paper. [0] or at least for a few years :)
    - robin_reala 12y ago
      Cash machines have to deal with raised numerals. You could at least make it as thick as card + raised digits all over.
TrevorJ 12y ago
I'm extremely skeptical that this will work as well: they say you can remotely lock the card which would require some kind of bluetooth polling to your phone at a pretty regular interval and I doubt battery life is going to allow for that.

timdorr 12y ago

Also, the fact that their home page video features some poorly motion-tracked simulated display. That alone instills some fear in me that this is just complete vaporware.

eclipxe 12y ago
Of course it is vaporware. They're trying to prove the market exists, sell the product up front, then go build it. Will it ever ship or be remotely as thin and svelte as this mockup? I'm guessing no, but if they pull it off, kudos.
- ahomescu1 12y ago
  This is what people usually use Kickstarter or Indiegogo for.
  - eclipxe 12y ago
    Or Hackernews :-)
  - ksherlock 12y ago
    With the updated hardware rules (show a prototype, no photorealistic renderings), this isn't even kickstarter material. https://www.kickstarter.com/rules/prototypes https://www.kickstarter.com/rules/prototypes
- jedmeyers 12y ago
  You are telling this as if "go build it" is the least important part.
  - eclipxe 12y ago
    No, it is the most important and hardest part. My point about it ever shipping or being as good as the promo video alludes to this. It's easy(ish) to create a slick landing page and quirky video demo, it's hard as hell to make a product.

ilanco 12y ago

Although the product looks very attractive, I doubt they will be able to pull it off. This line from their TOS should be a little worrying: "We are engaging in a new industry, and there is no assurance that the products and Services will contain all of the characteristics set forth herein or in our marketing materials."

Shivetya 12y ago

i still question the need with smartphones and NFC.. its like too little too late