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I think the reason we keep seeing this over and over without any great insight is due to cognitive dissonance. Even after the Milgram experiments, not to mentio

I think the reason we keep seeing this over and over without any great insight is due to cognitive dissonance. Even after the Milgram experiments, not to mention countless wars, cruelty, genocide, domestic abuse, scapegoating, prejudice, persecution, and all other shameful acts of humanity that fill the history books, we can't bring ourselves to believe that authority is bad. We keep looking for a different interpretation or experiment to exonerate unquestioning obedience but it never happens.

chippy 12y ago
We think that humans have grown up and developed?
- protonfish 12y ago
  I don't think that is relevant. The justifications behind the self-delusion of doublethink can be unique to each individual.
  - hderms 12y ago
    I think it absolutely is relevant. Our society is obsessed with the concept of self-actualization, and self-expression in the midst of an electronically connected populace. The average person has more of a 'voice' than they ever had before (at least proportional to population). I don't think that anything has changed in society that would change the results of the experiments, but the narrative of the modern society is definitely about humans "growing up and developing".
- otakucode 12y ago
  That would be a radically dangerous position to adopt. It is exactly the position which fueled colonialism. They thought they had grown up as well and were in a position to 'help' the rest of humanity grow with them - into being driven primarily by economic motives dedicated to suppressing every counter-productive urge to pleasure that humans experience. And, of course, the Holocaust was supported by this exact argument as well. We'd developed enough that we knew how to improve the human race - eugenics. We knew how to improve 'mental hygeine'. All that was required was hard men making the hard choices, overcoming the weaknesses of empathy and compassion for the greater good. And the people lapped it up. That is a dangerous area to tread upon. We should always be humble in our knowledge, and parsimonious in its application.
  - Houshalter 12y ago
    These analogies are forced to fit your narrative. By your logic we should never do anything because future generations may realize we were wrong. Colonialists didn't care about helping natives, they wanted their resources. Whether or not eugenics could work was never in question. It was whether it was moral. The holocaust was motivated primarily by hatred, not merely misguided attempts at improving the world.
innguest 12y ago
Very well said, and something I have specifically been thinking about. The Milgram experiment should be the experiment that opens our eyes and welcomes all ways of questioning authorities, and the missing link that connects all bad things in the world with obedience to authority, but alas, if people want to follow then they will follow regardless of the evidence.
- protonfish 12y ago
  Or maybe, more importantly, people desire others to obey them.

chippy 12y ago

We think that humans have grown up and developed?

protonfish 12y ago
I don't think that is relevant. The justifications behind the self-delusion of doublethink can be unique to each individual.
- hderms 12y ago
  I think it absolutely is relevant. Our society is obsessed with the concept of self-actualization, and self-expression in the midst of an electronically connected populace. The average person has more of a 'voice' than they ever had before (at least proportional to population). I don't think that anything has changed in society that would change the results of the experiments, but the narrative of the modern society is definitely about humans "growing up and developing".
otakucode 12y ago
That would be a radically dangerous position to adopt. It is exactly the position which fueled colonialism. They thought they had grown up as well and were in a position to 'help' the rest of humanity grow with them - into being driven primarily by economic motives dedicated to suppressing every counter-productive urge to pleasure that humans experience. And, of course, the Holocaust was supported by this exact argument as well. We'd developed enough that we knew how to improve the human race - eugenics. We knew how to improve 'mental hygeine'. All that was required was hard men making the hard choices, overcoming the weaknesses of empathy and compassion for the greater good. And the people lapped it up. That is a dangerous area to tread upon. We should always be humble in our knowledge, and parsimonious in its application.
- Houshalter 12y ago
  These analogies are forced to fit your narrative. By your logic we should never do anything because future generations may realize we were wrong. Colonialists didn't care about helping natives, they wanted their resources. Whether or not eugenics could work was never in question. It was whether it was moral. The holocaust was motivated primarily by hatred, not merely misguided attempts at improving the world.

innguest 12y ago

Very well said, and something I have specifically been thinking about. The Milgram experiment should be the experiment that opens our eyes and welcomes all ways of questioning authorities, and the missing link that connects all bad things in the world with obedience to authority, but alas, if people want to follow then they will follow regardless of the evidence.

protonfish 12y ago
Or maybe, more importantly, people desire others to obey them.