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So I'm a blogger with posts that occasionally go semi-viral [1], and I've been subject to unpleasant comments on a few occasions. Here are a couple of posts whi

So I'm a blogger with posts that occasionally go semi-viral [1], and I've been subject to unpleasant comments on a few occasions. Here are a couple of posts which have gotten me quite a bit of hate: http://www.chrisstucchio.com/blog/2013/basic_income_vs_basic_job.html http://www.chrisstucchio.com/blog/2013/basic_income_vs_basic... http://www.chrisstucchio.com/blog/2014/equal_weights.html http://www.chrisstucchio.com/blog/2014/equal_weights.html In both cases they are posts about mathematics which use other topics (economics, dating) as concrete examples and the examples draw hatred. However, unlike many of the people subject to unpleasant behavior such as this, I'm going to suggest that the best thing to do is ignore it and move on with your life. I don't favor much in the way of systematic solutions. Assorted "codes of conduct" being proposed are blunt instruments and are easily used by people in power to bully others or to shut down discussion of "incorrect" opinions. Furthermore, technology is fairly unique in it's communication. In many fields, communication is there to create a sense of community and in-group status - creating a tribe. In our field, most communication is simply about facts. It's quite easy to ignore "you're wrong because X,Y,Z and a big jerk" - just evaluate argument X,Y,Z and update your beliefs accordingly. Back when I lived in NY, a coach told me (rough paraphrase): "Tu debil. Necesita para construir tu corpu." ("You're weak. You need to build your body.") In the recent past, the tech world's culture was a lot like that of a mexican boxing club. The correct response is "si, mi SQL debil, eu pratico." ("Yes, my SQL is weak, I'll practice.") Somewhere along the line, we gave this up and became a culture where feelings matter more than results. I think the solution here is for the tech world to regrow the thick skin it once had. [1] A post about functional programming is limited in it's eventual virality.

minikites 12y ago
This is different for men and women. http://www.psmag.com/navigation/health-and-behavior/women-arent-welcome-internet-72170/ http://www.psmag.com/navigation/health-and-behavior/women-ar... "Accounts with feminine usernames incurred an average of 100 sexually explicit or threatening messages a day. Masculine names received 3.7." http://time.com/3305466/male-female-harassment-online/ http://time.com/3305466/male-female-harassment-online/ The study pointed out that the harassment targeted at men is not because they are men, as is clearly more frequently the case with women. It’s defining because a lot of harassment is an effort to put women, because they are women, back in their “place.”
- belorn 12y ago
  When the message is a threat of violence or hitmen, it should be taken serious regardless of the targeted person gender. It is very important to not trivialize harassment directed at men because they are male and not female. That is part of the very gender stereotype that it is the cause of the statistics your referenced, and reinforcing that behavior will only make things worse.
  - angersock 12y ago
    No, that's stupid, because the cost of taking it seriously is far far greater than the estimated badness of any of those threats. Reasoning like that is why we have the TSA.
    - teddyh 12y ago
      You misunderstood; belorn meant “it should be taken [equally] serious regardless of the targeted person[’s] gender”.
  - SamReidHughes 12y ago
    The "harassment" i.e. blog comments is not being trivialized. It's pre-trivial.
- yummyfajitas 12y ago
  This is a bit of a change of subject. Lennert Pottering is male. Would the aforementioned unpleasant behavior be more acceptable to you if it were directed via a random number generator (i.e. a random set of people are singled out to receive 100 messages/day) rather than a predictable decision process?
  - minikites 12y ago
    I was responding to your overall premise: > Somewhere along the line, we gave this up and became a culture where feelings matter more than results. I think the solution here is for the tech world to regrow the thick skin it once had. I disagree that the solution is to regrow a thick skin and if you ignore the differing experiences that tech women have, you're overlooking a gigantic problem in the current tech industry and tech culture.
pyre 12y ago
To summarize: The tech community has become weak because we have taken a look at ourselves and realized that many among us are brutish, brash, and generally all-around assholes. But since these people are highly skilled, we should feel that the fact that they are assholes should be swept under the rug and we should "just deal with it." I get that these things exist and that we have to deal with them (change doesn't happen over night), but that doesn't make then "right" or "ok" or "acceptable." Is it wrong to want to change things? Does that make one weak because they don't like the current situation and want to change it rather than "growing a tough skin" and accepting the status quo?
- tomp 12y ago
  > Is it wrong to want to change things? No. It's not wrong to not want to change them either. I like Linus. He delivers. Many people talk nice, but it's all bullshit.
  - pyre 12y ago
    > Many people talk nice, but it's all bullshit. Are you stating that you believe that there is a direct 1:1 correlation between people talking in a civil manner and people being "all bullshit"? Are you also stating that calling someone names when telling them they are wrong somehow adds credibility to opinion of the name-caller? What about political attack ads that spend all of their time smearing the person rather than their policies?
    - tomp 12y ago
      Neither.
      - pyre 12y ago
        Could you expand on the "all bullshit" part then because it comes across as saying that there isn't any point to being civil with people.
        12y ago
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
tomp 12y ago
> Somewhere along the line, we gave this up and became a culture where feelings matter more than results. Thanks for saying this. I completely agree. I'm from Europe though, maybe it's worse in the US. Also, I love the second post you cited (Equal Weights). It's completely clear to me that there is absolutely no sexism/racism involved, and also how stupid people would think that it's racist/sexist.

minikites 12y ago

This is different for men and women. http://www.psmag.com/navigation/health-and-behavior/women-arent-welcome-internet-72170/ http://www.psmag.com/navigation/health-and-behavior/women-ar... "Accounts with feminine usernames incurred an average of 100 sexually explicit or threatening messages a day. Masculine names received 3.7." http://time.com/3305466/male-female-harassment-online/ http://time.com/3305466/male-female-harassment-online/ The study pointed out that the harassment targeted at men is not because they are men, as is clearly more frequently the case with women. It’s defining because a lot of harassment is an effort to put women, because they are women, back in their “place.”

belorn 12y ago
When the message is a threat of violence or hitmen, it should be taken serious regardless of the targeted person gender. It is very important to not trivialize harassment directed at men because they are male and not female. That is part of the very gender stereotype that it is the cause of the statistics your referenced, and reinforcing that behavior will only make things worse.
- angersock 12y ago
  No, that's stupid, because the cost of taking it seriously is far far greater than the estimated badness of any of those threats. Reasoning like that is why we have the TSA.
  - teddyh 12y ago
    You misunderstood; belorn meant “it should be taken [equally] serious regardless of the targeted person[’s] gender”.
- SamReidHughes 12y ago
  The "harassment" i.e. blog comments is not being trivialized. It's pre-trivial.
yummyfajitas 12y ago
This is a bit of a change of subject. Lennert Pottering is male. Would the aforementioned unpleasant behavior be more acceptable to you if it were directed via a random number generator (i.e. a random set of people are singled out to receive 100 messages/day) rather than a predictable decision process?
- minikites 12y ago
  I was responding to your overall premise: > Somewhere along the line, we gave this up and became a culture where feelings matter more than results. I think the solution here is for the tech world to regrow the thick skin it once had. I disagree that the solution is to regrow a thick skin and if you ignore the differing experiences that tech women have, you're overlooking a gigantic problem in the current tech industry and tech culture.

pyre 12y ago

To summarize: The tech community has become weak because we have taken a look at ourselves and realized that many among us are brutish, brash, and generally all-around assholes. But since these people are highly skilled, we should feel that the fact that they are assholes should be swept under the rug and we should "just deal with it." I get that these things exist and that we have to deal with them (change doesn't happen over night), but that doesn't make then "right" or "ok" or "acceptable." Is it wrong to want to change things? Does that make one weak because they don't like the current situation and want to change it rather than "growing a tough skin" and accepting the status quo?

tomp 12y ago
> Is it wrong to want to change things? No. It's not wrong to not want to change them either. I like Linus. He delivers. Many people talk nice, but it's all bullshit.
- pyre 12y ago
  > Many people talk nice, but it's all bullshit. Are you stating that you believe that there is a direct 1:1 correlation between people talking in a civil manner and people being "all bullshit"? Are you also stating that calling someone names when telling them they are wrong somehow adds credibility to opinion of the name-caller? What about political attack ads that spend all of their time smearing the person rather than their policies?
  - tomp 12y ago
    Neither.
    - pyre 12y ago
      Could you expand on the "all bullshit" part then because it comes across as saying that there isn't any point to being civil with people.
      - 12y ago

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

tomp 12y ago

> Somewhere along the line, we gave this up and became a culture where feelings matter more than results. Thanks for saying this. I completely agree. I'm from Europe though, maybe it's worse in the US. Also, I love the second post you cited (Equal Weights). It's completely clear to me that there is absolutely no sexism/racism involved, and also how stupid people would think that it's racist/sexist.