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He's just the new Drepper. Coming from almost anyone else this might be reasonable, but him? Just pointing out someone else is an asshole does not negate you b

He's just the new Drepper. Coming from almost anyone else this might be reasonable, but him? Just pointing out someone else is an asshole does not negate you being an asshole. Honestly, it's people like him and the systemd noise on all sides that have made me lose faith in Linux. By contrast Linus has git too, which is potentially as big a contribution as Linux was in the first place. History may even demonstrate git is the more important contribution, because as it stands Linux as a potential platform for end user deployment, except as part of Android or Chrome OS, is basically dead now.

RVuRnvbM2e 12y ago
I'd be very interested if you could provide evidence of Lennart being an asshole. I've honestly never seen him be anything other than professional.
- fidotron 12y ago
  His entire m.o. is passive aggressive asshole, whereas Linus is balls out asshole, but has the relatively unique quality of being right more often than not. I'd even argue this post is lennart using the genuinely disgusting antics of others as a way to deflect potential criticism of his work in future. This is why, like Drepper, many view him as a long term liability to the ecosystem as a whole.
  - the_why_of_y 12y ago
    That's odd... I thought passive-aggressive is when you're deliberately failing to do something you're supposed to do and capable of doing, but what he's usually accused of is actually doing too many things - please clarify this apparent contradiction.
- vezzy-fnord 12y ago
  Here is one of his more infamous statements: http://lwn.net/Articles/430699/ http://lwn.net/Articles/430699/ "What I actually suggested in that interview was not so much that the BSDs should adopt the Linux APIs, but instead that people should just forget about the BSDs. Full stop." He's also been an annoyance in Steve Langasek (Upstart developer)'s Google+ feed, and his post regarding the inseparability of systemd-logind as a main argument for why Debian should adopt systemd, at the time of the heated debates, is another. Among plenty of other examples. His hijacking of Wolfgang Draxinger's CCC talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmPKDeo9Oow https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmPKDeo9Oow Announcing udev becoming systemd-only while referring to potential detractors as "systemd-haters": http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2014-May/019657.html http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2014-May... That said, Lennart does not deserve the death threats and the extremer vitriol, but the jabs and sardonic humor are par for the course, given he is a divisive figure, and has made a lot of people mad for good reason. He's not as abrasive and destructive as Drepper is, certainly, but some people actually find indirect and passive-aggressive attitudes to be even more offensive.
  - grandinj 12y ago
    So his technical opinions warrant personal vitroilic responses? That's a rather .... interesting position.
    - vezzy-fnord 12y ago
      None of them are purely technical or even at all concerning his denouncement of BSD.
forca 12y ago
Linux has become simply the invisible platform upon which so much runs. This is true by virtue of not only Android, but other stuff. Take notice, though, that more and more businesses are shunning Linux in favour of BSD. PS4, most routers, switches, increasing numbers of embedded chips now run NetBSD and OpenBSD (esp. in wi-fi security space). Businesses are also increasingly wary of the GPL and using maximally free licenses like the BSD/ISC/MIT. I'm considering this myself.
- fl0wenol 12y ago
  Can you elaborate on why this is a concern for you now as opposed to 10 years ago? As far as I'm aware, nothing significant about licensing, best practice, or case law has changed. (Linux didn't adopt GPLv3, so...) Developers in the Linux space the developers get nervous when vendors want to take it and graft DRM/black box components on the side and not document them or allow others to do the same. You can do this under GPL with a hardware-assisted solution, but not in pure software. If you treat your firmware as part of a black box where the keys to the kingdom are baked into the firmware, then you're probably better off with something that isn't copyleft.
silon3 12y ago
Systemd is great step ahead in theory. Seems even to be quite stable in practice. Binary logs by default are a disastrous decision however.
placeybordeaux 12y ago
I disagree with Linux failing as a potential platform for end user deployment. We might even seen SteamOS take off.
- wastedhours 12y ago
  2015 will be the year of Linux on the desktop.
- logn 12y ago
  Me too. The platform for end-user deployment is largely the browser. That's not Linux but the servers behind them are. And with 80% of smartphones on Android, along with a slew of other embedded devices, Linux truly does stand in a strong position. Further, most 'big data' is driven by Linux.

RVuRnvbM2e 12y ago

I'd be very interested if you could provide evidence of Lennart being an asshole. I've honestly never seen him be anything other than professional.

fidotron 12y ago
His entire m.o. is passive aggressive asshole, whereas Linus is balls out asshole, but has the relatively unique quality of being right more often than not. I'd even argue this post is lennart using the genuinely disgusting antics of others as a way to deflect potential criticism of his work in future. This is why, like Drepper, many view him as a long term liability to the ecosystem as a whole.
- the_why_of_y 12y ago
  That's odd... I thought passive-aggressive is when you're deliberately failing to do something you're supposed to do and capable of doing, but what he's usually accused of is actually doing too many things - please clarify this apparent contradiction.
vezzy-fnord 12y ago
Here is one of his more infamous statements: http://lwn.net/Articles/430699/ http://lwn.net/Articles/430699/ "What I actually suggested in that interview was not so much that the BSDs should adopt the Linux APIs, but instead that people should just forget about the BSDs. Full stop." He's also been an annoyance in Steve Langasek (Upstart developer)'s Google+ feed, and his post regarding the inseparability of systemd-logind as a main argument for why Debian should adopt systemd, at the time of the heated debates, is another. Among plenty of other examples. His hijacking of Wolfgang Draxinger's CCC talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmPKDeo9Oow https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmPKDeo9Oow Announcing udev becoming systemd-only while referring to potential detractors as "systemd-haters": http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2014-May/019657.html http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2014-May... That said, Lennart does not deserve the death threats and the extremer vitriol, but the jabs and sardonic humor are par for the course, given he is a divisive figure, and has made a lot of people mad for good reason. He's not as abrasive and destructive as Drepper is, certainly, but some people actually find indirect and passive-aggressive attitudes to be even more offensive.
- grandinj 12y ago
  So his technical opinions warrant personal vitroilic responses? That's a rather .... interesting position.
  - vezzy-fnord 12y ago
    None of them are purely technical or even at all concerning his denouncement of BSD.

forca 12y ago

Linux has become simply the invisible platform upon which so much runs. This is true by virtue of not only Android, but other stuff. Take notice, though, that more and more businesses are shunning Linux in favour of BSD. PS4, most routers, switches, increasing numbers of embedded chips now run NetBSD and OpenBSD (esp. in wi-fi security space). Businesses are also increasingly wary of the GPL and using maximally free licenses like the BSD/ISC/MIT. I'm considering this myself.

fl0wenol 12y ago
Can you elaborate on why this is a concern for you now as opposed to 10 years ago? As far as I'm aware, nothing significant about licensing, best practice, or case law has changed. (Linux didn't adopt GPLv3, so...) Developers in the Linux space the developers get nervous when vendors want to take it and graft DRM/black box components on the side and not document them or allow others to do the same. You can do this under GPL with a hardware-assisted solution, but not in pure software. If you treat your firmware as part of a black box where the keys to the kingdom are baked into the firmware, then you're probably better off with something that isn't copyleft.

silon3 12y ago

Systemd is great step ahead in theory. Seems even to be quite stable in practice. Binary logs by default are a disastrous decision however.

placeybordeaux 12y ago

I disagree with Linux failing as a potential platform for end user deployment. We might even seen SteamOS take off.

wastedhours 12y ago
2015 will be the year of Linux on the desktop.
logn 12y ago
Me too. The platform for end-user deployment is largely the browser. That's not Linux but the servers behind them are. And with 80% of smartphones on Android, along with a slew of other embedded devices, Linux truly does stand in a strong position. Further, most 'big data' is driven by Linux.