9 ms·

Spain is trying to get rid of Uber: drivers will face fines up to €18K

68 points by lleims 12y ago

rmc 12y ago
> How they will do this in a city with thousands of cars is a different question, and authorities haven’t given any details on how they will try to find Uber cars in the streets of Madrid. Easy. Undercover inspectors just book an Uber ride. Soon as they step into the vehicle, they present ID and fine the driver.
- w1ntermute 12y ago
  I don't think it's that "easy." Uber could easily develop a way to detect such users and block them.
  - Argorak 12y ago
    Test buyers can be recruited from the current customers. Also, denying service can be an offense as well. (depending on the reasons)
  - onion2k 12y ago
    The authorities wouldn't need to be successful very often. So long as there's a possibility of a large fine the number of drivers would start to fall. If it falls to a level where getting an Uber car takes too long the customers will leave, and then Uber withdraw because they aren't making any money if there aren't any customers. If 1% of Uber drivers are fined leads to 50% of drivers being scared away that could be enough to stop Uber completely.
  - rmc 12y ago
    Silicon Valley tech companies rarely spend a lot of time caring about the rest of the world. Uber won't bother that much.
bertil 12y ago
I'm just wondering: facing such explicitly adverse government, what is the point of trying? Do you think Uber should sit that one out, and wait success abroad to change people's mind, or have foreign tourists used to Uber beg for the service to come back? I can’t imagine a change in public opinion in favor: the country that has massive official unemployment, systemic black market: the “sharing economy” cannot be more popular than now. One PR strategy would be to denounce the undeclared equivalents, drivers who offer rides without any licence or control; have the obvious accident happen (unceremonious driver, riders running away) and blow it out with a PR campaign; Uber could then present as the savior, and an needed control over the unscrupulous drivers and riders.
jjoergensen 12y ago
It would be nice to be able to find a "sane" taxi-driver in Spain. Many (most) of them drive like crazy and they are all listening to very loud football on the radio.
- MordodeMaru 12y ago
  I believe that's part of their value proposition. I enjoy pulling out from them how far right-winged they are by throwing out franquist bullshit all the time. They make my day.
  - pantulis 12y ago
    I usually do the same. I wonder if Madrid cab drivers think all their clients are right wing enthusiasts.
- Adirael 12y ago
  I don't use taxis very often but I've never found a stereotypical taxi driver in the 10-20 times I've used them (I live in Madrid). They were all polite, their cars were clean and had no music/radio or it was set to a low volume.
  - MordodeMaru 12y ago
    NOT REPRESENTATIVE.
- lleims 12y ago
  Stereotypes. I've used MyTaxi or Hailo many times in the past few months here in Madrid and have had 0 issues with taxi drivers. I'm not saying there are no taxi drivers like the ones you described above, but I think it's a minority.
  - Numberwang 12y ago
    Anecdotes. I've booked a single taxi journey in Spain, and it was one of the most frightening experiences in my life. The guy was chasing pedestrians and would have run over several of them had they not jumped. He got us to where we were going quickly though.
pfortuny 12y ago
You have to bear in mind that Amazon was not in Spain until just a couple of years ago because you know, the law here is very much pro-publishers. This move is not a surprise for us Spaniards. A real pity. On the other hand, taxis here in Spain are nowhere near the chaos they seem to be in Manhattan or SF. They are usually rather clean (not necessarily shiny but decently clean) and drivers tend to be agreeable (there are exceptions, as in everything).
- oldspiceman 12y ago
  Can't agree with your point here. It's extremely common to get ripped off by taxis in Spain. There is no incentive for them to be agreeable with foreigners.
  - santialbo 12y ago
    It's easy to get ripped off by taxis anywhere in the world if you are a tourist who doesn't know your way around.
    - TeMPOraL 12y ago
      Yup. In Poland the rule of thumb is that you order a taxi from a taxi network - the ones parked outside airport or train stations are usually scammers.
  - RBerenguel 12y ago
    Not in Barcelona, at least, since fare prices are shown in the windows (IIRC this is also the norm in the UK, and I thought this was also done Spain-wide, but it's been a while since I took a taxi outside of Barcelona.) Of course, nothing prevents the taxi from driving around needlessly. But this can happen anywhere, Uber or no Uber.
    - mithras 12y ago
      When I took a taxi in barcelona the taxi driver held my luggage hostage and insisted on a flat fee instead of the meter when we arrived at the destination. I had no working mobile phone so there was not much I could do but pay him. An anecdote but I doubt it's the only time that happened.
txutxu 12y ago
Well, a taxi license in Spain costs as much as a good new house. Maybe even two houses depending on the area. Historically, people needed to take big credits to start a taxi career. I'm not sure what is my position, but I've empathy for those who did pay such license and special insurances. Also I've empathy for those who want to make use of Uber services. It's not easy to make justice to all of them at the same time. I think there are more European countries with the same conflicts regarding this situation with traditional taxis and Uber. Many disputes, demonstrations and strikes, all around Europe. Here in Spanishtan the government has take a position. We can not presume of a 2.0 government, neither about pro technological laws, or pro entrepreneur laws. Indeed. Is not new for me.
- samuel 12y ago
  Also, licenses had their own bubble. Probably their value has decreased about a 50% since the peak.
  - vimes656 12y ago
    Exactly, the price for a driver spot is driven by demand, it's not expensive just by law. Traditionally, getting a driver license in Spain has always been like signing for a relatively well paid and secure job for life. And moreover, there is no need for any investment learning any particularly difficult skill. This is all supported by ridiculously high fares backed by regulations. This is not to put the blame on taxi drivers, I truly believe they are choosing a honest option to make a living. But considering that an important factor, if not the most important, for the Spanish economical crisis is the inability to adapt to a global economy, with this kind of actions, the message the government is sending is: "don't invest your time learning to code, or getting engineering degrees because we are still trying everything in our hand to keep traditional professions secure and well paid, not like those new risky technological jobs". The average Spanish programmer is in a more precarious situation than anyone with a highly regulated unskilled profession. Here in Spain, I'm constantly seeing measures to try to maintain the old ways of living at any cost with total disregard about how the rest of the world is evolving. I'm not claiming globalization is good or bad but it's happening, and if the Spanish government keeps trying to hide it from its population with more debt, in the long term, it only means less economical competitiveness for the country and slimmer chances to catch up with the rest of the world in the future. Defending these minority groups only means more poverty overall for everyone in Spain.
marknutter 12y ago
Because the last thing Spain needs is more job opportunities...
- santialbo 12y ago
  Of all the jobs spain needs, taxi drivers is not one of them, that's for sure.
  - bottled_poe 12y ago
    That's for the market to decide.
piokoch 12y ago
As far as I can see, Uber is the problem in countries, where taxi industry is heavily regularized. Recently Uber started its operation in Poland, in Warsaw. For 2 days that was a news, but later nobody paid much attention on it. In Poland in order to become taxi driver one needs to fulfill a number of conditions (only people who never comitted a crime are allowed a licence, must be physically and mentally healthy) a then pass the "city knowladge" exam. Exam is obligatory only in cites larger then 100K. And that's all. Due to competition taxi prices are kept on resonable level, so taxi companies are competing by having nicer cars, being highly available (wating for a taxi longer then 10 min is unusual), offering loyalty cards, cummulative invoicing at the end of the month, etc. Uber can compete with lower prices - they have promised to be 20% cheaper. It is not clear however cheaper from which price - premium taxi companies (about 60 cents per kilometer) or cheap services (40 cents per kilometer). There are other questions as well - would Uber be able to provide invoices, if not, it is not a deal for many people. Even if I pay less (10% less?), I don't think I will risk riding with someone who might be totally unfit for the job and does not know city. Plus if something goes wrong I am not sure how Uber is going to handle that. So, basically, Uber is one more taxi company out of 25 with fancy way of calling taxi, so there is no reason for other companies to protest.
- bottled_poe 12y ago
  Exactly. Uber has risen as we perceive the cost of a taxi service to be excessive. Why is this? Is it exploitation by a bloated monopoly or is it to cover actual costs (such as insurance, regulatory constraints) which don't present themselves to the average traveler? I'm sure it is somewhere in the middle.
  - james1071 12y ago
    The main differences will be labour rates-i.e. how much the driver is paid (or earns) per shift and the utilization rate (i.e how much of the time the driver is working).
- alkonaut 12y ago
  Same in Stockholm, Uber isnt some revolutionary new method of transportation, it's another taxi co among hundreds. The app+payment is the only thing that sets them apart, but apps of course exist for a handful of the other largest taxi companies.
luisivan 12y ago
I live in Madrid and I'm totally ashamed about this. I used Uber a couple times, the second one this friday, and I friend and I asked the driver what will he do about the fines that will start happening this monday. He just said that he will probably stop driving. I love these new kind of services and this is not the way to boost innovation. Our politicians are fucking morons.
- ergl 12y ago
  Do you live in the same Madrid as me? I can't figure out what kind of 'innovation' Uber is bringing to the table. There are plenty of taxis and free services for you to book one, I have never waited more than 10 minutes to get one, and most drivers are respectful and will turn the radio off or leave you alone if you say so. You can even ask them to take a particular route and they won't have any problem in doing so
  - luisivan 12y ago
    The innovation is that you don't have to pay 100K in order to be a city driver
- mokkol 12y ago
  Have you tried Cabify yet? Cheaper than a taxi, very good quality of service and many more cars on the street than Uber. And 100% Legal
  - luisivan 12y ago
    Yeah, a friend of mine works there and I'm kind of a regular user :)
sergimansilla 12y ago
I take a fair amount of taxis and Uber. Except on some cases*, my experience with Uber is always vastly superior than it is with taxis: from the conversation to cleanliness, efficiency, etc. Specially in Spain. I agree that Uber needs to have the same fiscal treatment as taxis do, but making the service illegal is beyond ridiculous, and a very sad way to try to stifle innovation (which will end up finding its way anyway).
- RBerenguel 12y ago
  I don't know where you have taken taxis in Spain, but all taxis I've taken in Barcelona are incredibly clean and the drivers are incredibly efficient (given that I'm Spanish and know the best routes for these trips, too, of course)
  - huehue 12y ago
    Just upon arriving to Barajas Airport in Madrid, I went outside to the taxi area and could delight myself with taxis not respecting the queue (allowing clients instead of referring them to the head of the queue) and the image of two taxi drivers fist fighting for some clients. Yup. Not to mention they wanted to charge me over 100 euros for going from the Airport to the main train station. From my experience the taxi industry of Spain is highly inefficient and overpriced.
    - RBerenguel 12y ago
      In Barcelona there is someone taking care of the queue always (I think if a taxi driver allowed clients without due respect to the queue he'd lose airport access rights, so lose a lot of money), and the price for airport-City centre is written in the windows so you see it before entering (and also seen in the inside, it's a fixed price with minor variability depending on day of the week) So, from what I've seen here it's unlikely I'll be taking taxis in Madrid, but will keep using Barcelona taxis when I need them.
- pron 12y ago
  Why do you think Uber is an "innovation"? It's simply an unregulated, unsafe and uninsured taxi service. It's just like those illegal scalpers offering rides in any airport, except with a smartphone app. That's not innovation (useful and popular taxi apps existed before Uber), and whatever it is, it's not being stifled. Uber is free to apply for permits just like everyone else. I think that instead of being sad you should be proud that your country doesn't automatically adopt any potentially harmful idea that comes from America.
moondowner 12y ago
I lived in Madrid for some time, and I rarely used taxi (in fact, only in cases when I needed to get to the airport in late hours). The public transportation is pretty good, one can get anywhere in Madrid by using metro. http://www.expatica.com/es/essentials_moving_to/essentials/Public-transport-in-Spain_15222.html http://www.expatica.com/es/essentials_moving_to/essentials/P...
mokkol 12y ago
People could just order Cabify in Madrid. 100% legal, cheaper than a taxi and more cars on the street.
alexperezpaya 12y ago
I live in Spain. I hate spanish laws. Living here is like living in socialism. 3 months to create your company because of bureaucracy, laws agains Airbnb and Uber, we want some liberty.
santialbo 12y ago
I don't see what the problem is. In Spain the rule is that you need a taxi license to be a taxi driver or you'll get fined. Uber pretending they don't need one is bullshit.
- raldi 12y ago
  Most American cities have that same rule, and yet Uber is legal in them; the key is how you define "taxi driver". In most US cities, if you don't pick up strangers holding up their hand on the sidewalk, you're not considered a taxi, and the rule does not apply.
ivanche 12y ago
"According to Spanish law, private drivers are not allowed to use their own cars to provide transportation services for-profit." I wonder if private drivers are allowed to drive someone else'e car to provide such services?
drKarl 12y ago
It is indeed true that taxi licenses in Spain are so outrageously expensive that taxi drivers have to take a mortage big enough to buy a house, to pay for it. There are certain industries in Spain which have legal barriers of entrance, so that it is very difficult for newcomers to get in, such as pharmacies and taxis. Think of it like a mafia. That said, it has been proved on a TV programme, that a spanish-looking person taking a taxi, the taxi took a short route, and a foreign looking person taking a taxi from the same place to exactly the same destination, the taxi took a much longer and expensive route. That said, it is my opinion that taxi driver and truck driver as a career has its days counted, in the light of innovations such as self driving cars. Obviously there will be a fierce (and presumably violent) opposition to the introduction of such disruptive technologies, they will lobby as a group (or as a mafia) trying to avoid that overtaking the market, but in the end those technologies will win. So in the end, it is irrelevant if Uber can or can´t operate now in countries like Spain, because taxi drivers have no future. The only hope for smart taxi drivers will be to buy a self-driving car and operate it 24hours a day (that is, embrace innovation as opposed to resist it, resistance is futile), while working themselves on something else, or just enjoying life.
forthefuture 12y ago
I don't want to be a wet blanket, but it seems to me that a better business model would be to make sure your entire company isn't operating illegally most places it exists (AirBnB, Uber / Lift).

68 points by lleims 12y ago

rmc 12y ago

> How they will do this in a city with thousands of cars is a different question, and authorities haven’t given any details on how they will try to find Uber cars in the streets of Madrid. Easy. Undercover inspectors just book an Uber ride. Soon as they step into the vehicle, they present ID and fine the driver.

w1ntermute 12y ago
I don't think it's that "easy." Uber could easily develop a way to detect such users and block them.
- Argorak 12y ago
  Test buyers can be recruited from the current customers. Also, denying service can be an offense as well. (depending on the reasons)
- onion2k 12y ago
  The authorities wouldn't need to be successful very often. So long as there's a possibility of a large fine the number of drivers would start to fall. If it falls to a level where getting an Uber car takes too long the customers will leave, and then Uber withdraw because they aren't making any money if there aren't any customers. If 1% of Uber drivers are fined leads to 50% of drivers being scared away that could be enough to stop Uber completely.
- rmc 12y ago
  Silicon Valley tech companies rarely spend a lot of time caring about the rest of the world. Uber won't bother that much.

bertil 12y ago

I'm just wondering: facing such explicitly adverse government, what is the point of trying? Do you think Uber should sit that one out, and wait success abroad to change people's mind, or have foreign tourists used to Uber beg for the service to come back? I can’t imagine a change in public opinion in favor: the country that has massive official unemployment, systemic black market: the “sharing economy” cannot be more popular than now. One PR strategy would be to denounce the undeclared equivalents, drivers who offer rides without any licence or control; have the obvious accident happen (unceremonious driver, riders running away) and blow it out with a PR campaign; Uber could then present as the savior, and an needed control over the unscrupulous drivers and riders.

jjoergensen 12y ago

It would be nice to be able to find a "sane" taxi-driver in Spain. Many (most) of them drive like crazy and they are all listening to very loud football on the radio.

MordodeMaru 12y ago
I believe that's part of their value proposition. I enjoy pulling out from them how far right-winged they are by throwing out franquist bullshit all the time. They make my day.
- pantulis 12y ago
  I usually do the same. I wonder if Madrid cab drivers think all their clients are right wing enthusiasts.
Adirael 12y ago
I don't use taxis very often but I've never found a stereotypical taxi driver in the 10-20 times I've used them (I live in Madrid). They were all polite, their cars were clean and had no music/radio or it was set to a low volume.
- MordodeMaru 12y ago
  NOT REPRESENTATIVE.
lleims 12y ago
Stereotypes. I've used MyTaxi or Hailo many times in the past few months here in Madrid and have had 0 issues with taxi drivers. I'm not saying there are no taxi drivers like the ones you described above, but I think it's a minority.
- Numberwang 12y ago
  Anecdotes. I've booked a single taxi journey in Spain, and it was one of the most frightening experiences in my life. The guy was chasing pedestrians and would have run over several of them had they not jumped. He got us to where we were going quickly though.

pfortuny 12y ago

You have to bear in mind that Amazon was not in Spain until just a couple of years ago because you know, the law here is very much pro-publishers. This move is not a surprise for us Spaniards. A real pity. On the other hand, taxis here in Spain are nowhere near the chaos they seem to be in Manhattan or SF. They are usually rather clean (not necessarily shiny but decently clean) and drivers tend to be agreeable (there are exceptions, as in everything).

oldspiceman 12y ago
Can't agree with your point here. It's extremely common to get ripped off by taxis in Spain. There is no incentive for them to be agreeable with foreigners.
- santialbo 12y ago
  It's easy to get ripped off by taxis anywhere in the world if you are a tourist who doesn't know your way around.
  - TeMPOraL 12y ago
    Yup. In Poland the rule of thumb is that you order a taxi from a taxi network - the ones parked outside airport or train stations are usually scammers.
- RBerenguel 12y ago
  Not in Barcelona, at least, since fare prices are shown in the windows (IIRC this is also the norm in the UK, and I thought this was also done Spain-wide, but it's been a while since I took a taxi outside of Barcelona.) Of course, nothing prevents the taxi from driving around needlessly. But this can happen anywhere, Uber or no Uber.
  - mithras 12y ago
    When I took a taxi in barcelona the taxi driver held my luggage hostage and insisted on a flat fee instead of the meter when we arrived at the destination. I had no working mobile phone so there was not much I could do but pay him. An anecdote but I doubt it's the only time that happened.

txutxu 12y ago

Well, a taxi license in Spain costs as much as a good new house. Maybe even two houses depending on the area. Historically, people needed to take big credits to start a taxi career. I'm not sure what is my position, but I've empathy for those who did pay such license and special insurances. Also I've empathy for those who want to make use of Uber services. It's not easy to make justice to all of them at the same time. I think there are more European countries with the same conflicts regarding this situation with traditional taxis and Uber. Many disputes, demonstrations and strikes, all around Europe. Here in Spanishtan the government has take a position. We can not presume of a 2.0 government, neither about pro technological laws, or pro entrepreneur laws. Indeed. Is not new for me.

samuel 12y ago
Also, licenses had their own bubble. Probably their value has decreased about a 50% since the peak.
- vimes656 12y ago
  Exactly, the price for a driver spot is driven by demand, it's not expensive just by law. Traditionally, getting a driver license in Spain has always been like signing for a relatively well paid and secure job for life. And moreover, there is no need for any investment learning any particularly difficult skill. This is all supported by ridiculously high fares backed by regulations. This is not to put the blame on taxi drivers, I truly believe they are choosing a honest option to make a living. But considering that an important factor, if not the most important, for the Spanish economical crisis is the inability to adapt to a global economy, with this kind of actions, the message the government is sending is: "don't invest your time learning to code, or getting engineering degrees because we are still trying everything in our hand to keep traditional professions secure and well paid, not like those new risky technological jobs". The average Spanish programmer is in a more precarious situation than anyone with a highly regulated unskilled profession. Here in Spain, I'm constantly seeing measures to try to maintain the old ways of living at any cost with total disregard about how the rest of the world is evolving. I'm not claiming globalization is good or bad but it's happening, and if the Spanish government keeps trying to hide it from its population with more debt, in the long term, it only means less economical competitiveness for the country and slimmer chances to catch up with the rest of the world in the future. Defending these minority groups only means more poverty overall for everyone in Spain.

marknutter 12y ago

Because the last thing Spain needs is more job opportunities...

santialbo 12y ago
Of all the jobs spain needs, taxi drivers is not one of them, that's for sure.
- bottled_poe 12y ago
  That's for the market to decide.

piokoch 12y ago

As far as I can see, Uber is the problem in countries, where taxi industry is heavily regularized. Recently Uber started its operation in Poland, in Warsaw. For 2 days that was a news, but later nobody paid much attention on it. In Poland in order to become taxi driver one needs to fulfill a number of conditions (only people who never comitted a crime are allowed a licence, must be physically and mentally healthy) a then pass the "city knowladge" exam. Exam is obligatory only in cites larger then 100K. And that's all. Due to competition taxi prices are kept on resonable level, so taxi companies are competing by having nicer cars, being highly available (wating for a taxi longer then 10 min is unusual), offering loyalty cards, cummulative invoicing at the end of the month, etc. Uber can compete with lower prices - they have promised to be 20% cheaper. It is not clear however cheaper from which price - premium taxi companies (about 60 cents per kilometer) or cheap services (40 cents per kilometer). There are other questions as well - would Uber be able to provide invoices, if not, it is not a deal for many people. Even if I pay less (10% less?), I don't think I will risk riding with someone who might be totally unfit for the job and does not know city. Plus if something goes wrong I am not sure how Uber is going to handle that. So, basically, Uber is one more taxi company out of 25 with fancy way of calling taxi, so there is no reason for other companies to protest.

bottled_poe 12y ago
Exactly. Uber has risen as we perceive the cost of a taxi service to be excessive. Why is this? Is it exploitation by a bloated monopoly or is it to cover actual costs (such as insurance, regulatory constraints) which don't present themselves to the average traveler? I'm sure it is somewhere in the middle.
- james1071 12y ago
  The main differences will be labour rates-i.e. how much the driver is paid (or earns) per shift and the utilization rate (i.e how much of the time the driver is working).
alkonaut 12y ago
Same in Stockholm, Uber isnt some revolutionary new method of transportation, it's another taxi co among hundreds. The app+payment is the only thing that sets them apart, but apps of course exist for a handful of the other largest taxi companies.

luisivan 12y ago

I live in Madrid and I'm totally ashamed about this. I used Uber a couple times, the second one this friday, and I friend and I asked the driver what will he do about the fines that will start happening this monday. He just said that he will probably stop driving. I love these new kind of services and this is not the way to boost innovation. Our politicians are fucking morons.

ergl 12y ago
Do you live in the same Madrid as me? I can't figure out what kind of 'innovation' Uber is bringing to the table. There are plenty of taxis and free services for you to book one, I have never waited more than 10 minutes to get one, and most drivers are respectful and will turn the radio off or leave you alone if you say so. You can even ask them to take a particular route and they won't have any problem in doing so
- luisivan 12y ago
  The innovation is that you don't have to pay 100K in order to be a city driver
mokkol 12y ago
Have you tried Cabify yet? Cheaper than a taxi, very good quality of service and many more cars on the street than Uber. And 100% Legal
- luisivan 12y ago
  Yeah, a friend of mine works there and I'm kind of a regular user :)

sergimansilla 12y ago

I take a fair amount of taxis and Uber. Except on some cases*, my experience with Uber is always vastly superior than it is with taxis: from the conversation to cleanliness, efficiency, etc. Specially in Spain. I agree that Uber needs to have the same fiscal treatment as taxis do, but making the service illegal is beyond ridiculous, and a very sad way to try to stifle innovation (which will end up finding its way anyway).

RBerenguel 12y ago
I don't know where you have taken taxis in Spain, but all taxis I've taken in Barcelona are incredibly clean and the drivers are incredibly efficient (given that I'm Spanish and know the best routes for these trips, too, of course)
- huehue 12y ago
  Just upon arriving to Barajas Airport in Madrid, I went outside to the taxi area and could delight myself with taxis not respecting the queue (allowing clients instead of referring them to the head of the queue) and the image of two taxi drivers fist fighting for some clients. Yup. Not to mention they wanted to charge me over 100 euros for going from the Airport to the main train station. From my experience the taxi industry of Spain is highly inefficient and overpriced.
  - RBerenguel 12y ago
    In Barcelona there is someone taking care of the queue always (I think if a taxi driver allowed clients without due respect to the queue he'd lose airport access rights, so lose a lot of money), and the price for airport-City centre is written in the windows so you see it before entering (and also seen in the inside, it's a fixed price with minor variability depending on day of the week) So, from what I've seen here it's unlikely I'll be taking taxis in Madrid, but will keep using Barcelona taxis when I need them.
pron 12y ago
Why do you think Uber is an "innovation"? It's simply an unregulated, unsafe and uninsured taxi service. It's just like those illegal scalpers offering rides in any airport, except with a smartphone app. That's not innovation (useful and popular taxi apps existed before Uber), and whatever it is, it's not being stifled. Uber is free to apply for permits just like everyone else. I think that instead of being sad you should be proud that your country doesn't automatically adopt any potentially harmful idea that comes from America.

moondowner 12y ago

I lived in Madrid for some time, and I rarely used taxi (in fact, only in cases when I needed to get to the airport in late hours). The public transportation is pretty good, one can get anywhere in Madrid by using metro. http://www.expatica.com/es/essentials_moving_to/essentials/Public-transport-in-Spain_15222.html http://www.expatica.com/es/essentials_moving_to/essentials/P...

mokkol 12y ago

People could just order Cabify in Madrid. 100% legal, cheaper than a taxi and more cars on the street.

alexperezpaya 12y ago

I live in Spain. I hate spanish laws. Living here is like living in socialism. 3 months to create your company because of bureaucracy, laws agains Airbnb and Uber, we want some liberty.

santialbo 12y ago

I don't see what the problem is. In Spain the rule is that you need a taxi license to be a taxi driver or you'll get fined. Uber pretending they don't need one is bullshit.

raldi 12y ago
Most American cities have that same rule, and yet Uber is legal in them; the key is how you define "taxi driver". In most US cities, if you don't pick up strangers holding up their hand on the sidewalk, you're not considered a taxi, and the rule does not apply.

ivanche 12y ago

"According to Spanish law, private drivers are not allowed to use their own cars to provide transportation services for-profit." I wonder if private drivers are allowed to drive someone else'e car to provide such services?

drKarl 12y ago

It is indeed true that taxi licenses in Spain are so outrageously expensive that taxi drivers have to take a mortage big enough to buy a house, to pay for it. There are certain industries in Spain which have legal barriers of entrance, so that it is very difficult for newcomers to get in, such as pharmacies and taxis. Think of it like a mafia. That said, it has been proved on a TV programme, that a spanish-looking person taking a taxi, the taxi took a short route, and a foreign looking person taking a taxi from the same place to exactly the same destination, the taxi took a much longer and expensive route. That said, it is my opinion that taxi driver and truck driver as a career has its days counted, in the light of innovations such as self driving cars. Obviously there will be a fierce (and presumably violent) opposition to the introduction of such disruptive technologies, they will lobby as a group (or as a mafia) trying to avoid that overtaking the market, but in the end those technologies will win. So in the end, it is irrelevant if Uber can or can´t operate now in countries like Spain, because taxi drivers have no future. The only hope for smart taxi drivers will be to buy a self-driving car and operate it 24hours a day (that is, embrace innovation as opposed to resist it, resistance is futile), while working themselves on something else, or just enjoying life.

forthefuture 12y ago

I don't want to be a wet blanket, but it seems to me that a better business model would be to make sure your entire company isn't operating illegally most places it exists (AirBnB, Uber / Lift).