4 ms·

"Feminism is the radical notion that women are people." - Rebecca West There's nothing sexist about feminism; it's simply wanting equality for women -- that do

by daeken 12y ago

"Feminism is the radical notion that women are people." - Rebecca West There's nothing sexist about feminism; it's simply wanting equality for women -- that does not mean that women and men are the same (as is often claimed), but that they are treated the same. Comparing feminism to affirmative action is incredibly misleading.

ObviousScience 12y ago
Pretending that the definition you gave is actually what drives all the "feminism" movement isn't being honest: it's certainly true for most people, but there is (and always has been) a not-small branch of feminism that is staunchly sexist.
- hypatiadotca 12y ago
  Kinda like Hacker News. CHECKMATE.
Jach 12y ago
Rebecca West does not speak for all feminists. She wasn't even alive for the mess of the third wave we're still in. I'm just replying to say your comment on a first reading comes across as naive in the subject of feminism. But it can also be seen as disingenuous, for it's a classic propaganda technique to hide behind a reasonable claim made by a proponent of X_1 to further along some goal of X_2, all while using the undifferentiated label X. (See https://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/orwell46.htm https://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/orwell46.htm on 'democracy'.) I also can't ignore that, left unqualified, an uncharitable reader may interpret your claim for men and women to be treated the same as a claim to be treated the same in all contexts, which is obviously a stupid idea, because men and women aren't the same. I'm not trying to argue with you, I'm just trying to encourage you to be less sloppy if you're going to reply to comments like sliverstorm's with intent to change minds. At best, your reply is just an argument over a definition (http://lesswrong.com/lw/np/disputing_definitions/ http://lesswrong.com/lw/np/disputing_definitions/), let's all try to do better.
sliverstorm 12y ago
The core ethos of feminism is that simple, yes. But how do we get there? That's where things like affirmative action routinely work their way into the discussion, and I hope you don't mean to pretend otherwise.

by daeken 12y ago

ObviousScience 12y ago

Pretending that the definition you gave is actually what drives all the "feminism" movement isn't being honest: it's certainly true for most people, but there is (and always has been) a not-small branch of feminism that is staunchly sexist.

hypatiadotca 12y ago
Kinda like Hacker News. CHECKMATE.

Jach 12y ago

Rebecca West does not speak for all feminists. She wasn't even alive for the mess of the third wave we're still in. I'm just replying to say your comment on a first reading comes across as naive in the subject of feminism. But it can also be seen as disingenuous, for it's a classic propaganda technique to hide behind a reasonable claim made by a proponent of X_1 to further along some goal of X_2, all while using the undifferentiated label X. (See https://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/orwell46.htm https://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/orwell46.htm on 'democracy'.) I also can't ignore that, left unqualified, an uncharitable reader may interpret your claim for men and women to be treated the same as a claim to be treated the same in all contexts, which is obviously a stupid idea, because men and women aren't the same. I'm not trying to argue with you, I'm just trying to encourage you to be less sloppy if you're going to reply to comments like sliverstorm's with intent to change minds. At best, your reply is just an argument over a definition (http://lesswrong.com/lw/np/disputing_definitions/ http://lesswrong.com/lw/np/disputing_definitions/), let's all try to do better.

sliverstorm 12y ago

The core ethos of feminism is that simple, yes. But how do we get there? That's where things like affirmative action routinely work their way into the discussion, and I hope you don't mean to pretend otherwise.