4 ms·

Firechat and nearby communication

128 points by firehosed 12y ago

firehosed 12y ago
Browse to FireChat's domain here[0] for a complete view of the "Everyone" chat in your client IP's region. [0] https://opengarden.com:4176/ https://opengarden.com:4176/
kylelibra 12y ago
I downloaded this a few months back hoping that in NYC there would be enough user density to make it useful, but it seems I was too early. Interesting use case that protesting would be using it.
- ethans92 12y ago
  Would definitely be interesting to see it being used for entertainment purposes. But it appears its a "last resort" kind of app, especially with Hong Kong's situation. If people are growing more and more concerned with privacy that could be the nudge. Or if they offered something standard SMS cannot (speed, feature, etc.)
- allard 12y ago
  A couple months ago I installed this on two devices and could not get it to work off-net nor did I see a good description of how it is supposed to work in that case. I assume Wi-Fi and Bluetooth on but not connected to an access point. I have seen mesh alive with XO-1s.
cowsandmilk 12y ago
Despite what the author continually says, the interface does not say "Real Name" in the author's screenshots. As far as I have heard, no one has been prevented from having an account due to a "Real Name" policy. This is in stark contrast to Facebook, the major player in the "Real Name" game. I don't like Firechat requiring a signup, but the facts of what is required should not be confused. Pseudonymous use appears to be accepted.
niutech 12y ago
As an open source alternative, have a look at the Project Serval http://www.servalproject.org/ http://www.servalproject.org/
- hyyypr 12y ago
  This seems long dead, also didn't find a link to the source code.
  - sleet 12y ago
    Source code: https://github.com/servalproject https://github.com/servalproject Activity: (1) https://github.com/servalproject/batphone/commits/development https://github.com/servalproject/batphone/commits/developmen... (2) http://developer.servalproject.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=content:activity:main_page http://developer.servalproject.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=cont...
wfunction 12y ago
Something I don't understand: can someone explain why FireChat needs an account when it doesn't require internet access?
- rektide 12y ago
  I believe an accounts basically stores your public key on their servers, so other people can verify with FireChat who it is that sent the message. In an offline context, you'd be able to get a lot of messages and tell that it's the same person talking, but you'll have no way to see whether that really is the person or not. FireChat's public key servers allow those with access to see- according to FireChat- who is talking.
  - wfunction 12y ago
    How are you supposed to verify with FireChat who sent the message when you don't have an internet connection though? Are you supposed to route your (presumably encrypted) request through other (presumably connected) phones? What's the point of requiring an account when the their entire selling point is that you can use the app in places with no internet access at all, like the wilderness?
    - waps 12y ago
      This is easy to implement using cryptography. E.g. when firechat assigns a username, they sign your certificate for said username using their key. Then, when sending messages, they have to be signed with your key (or outright encrypted), and the receiver verifies the key is correctly signed using firechat's key.
  - firehosed 12y ago
    You can impersonate other users.
golemotron 12y ago
I'd like to see someone make an app which only works in the nearby mode and requires no registration.
- micampe 12y ago
  Shortwave https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/shortwave-short-range-anonymous/id864480884?mt=8 https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/shortwave-short-range-anonym...
firehosed 12y ago
Is Firechat dead? "The server at opengarden.com is taking too long to respond."
- tonylemesmer 12y ago
  seems to be. I tried to connect using openssl and I imagine lots of other people are too :)
alanpoe918 12y ago
Anyone use the SDK ?
nemasu 12y ago
I took a look at FireChat, but bluetooth is a bit too 'nearby' for me. Very cool that it's off the grid, but only useful if you're basically right next to them anyways. I wanted something like: talk to everyone nearby in a football/hockey/tri-d chess stadium, but bluetooth falls a bit short. What would be really cool is if you could set up a relay system through other devices. I've made (i.e. works, but not polished yet) something similar: http://www.shoutium.com http://www.shoutium.com which has ranges of 1-100KM around your current location. It does require internet, so it probably isn't aimed at the firechat crowd anyways. Very few users unfortunately, guess I'll work on advertising after the iOS version is done -_-
- riffic 12y ago
  Slight (http://slight.la http://slight.la) is one way of leaving messages in a location; those running the app receive a notification when new messages are left nearby.
  - nemasu 12y ago
    Ahhh, nice, I was thinking of adding this.
  - lcedp 12y ago
    Does anyone know an alternative for Android?
- higherpurpose 12y ago
  I wonder of LTE Direct, which goes up to 500m would help that, but I'm worried the carriers will be able to control it somehow, which will make it kind of pointless in terms of decentralizing the technology. I'm also very disappointed in the Wi-Fi Alliance for not creating a better long-distance Wi-Fi. That's its future right there - disrupting cellular, and getting more people to prefer Wi-Fi over cellular. But that's only going to happen if we can easily create "mesh networks" across the country.
- prawks 12y ago
  YikYak is similar to what you're talking about, though it's anonymous by design. IIRC it's limited to a 10-mile radius. http://www.yikyakapp.com/ http://www.yikyakapp.com/
mxgr 12y ago
Is there something similar that is based on Wifi connections instead of bluetooth? Wouldn't that offer a greater range? Edit: Nevermind, the article explains that firechat does in fact use Wifi in addition to Bluetooth to transmit messages: From the first IP, I understand that Firechat is also looking to create bond between WiFi device. It periodically sends UDP packet to the multicast address 239.192.0.0 and will also forward message just as it does with bluetooth. So not only every message sent are forwarded by bluetooth, they are also forwarded by WiFi !
natar 12y ago
I saw this a few days ago in F-Droid's „Recently Added“ category, a bluetooth chat app called Gilgamesh: https://github.com/n8fr8/gilgamesh https://github.com/n8fr8/gilgamesh (https://f-droid.org/repository/browse/?fdid=info.guardianproject.gilga https://f-droid.org/repository/browse/?fdid=info.guardianpro...) Don't know if it's anonymous or encrypted (is that is even possible?) but other then Firechat (and most other apps linked here until now) it's Open Source. Would love to know what someone with a more technical expertise than me thinks about this.
worklogin 12y ago
This domain is flagged as "malicious software/botnets"... be careful clicking on this link!
rlpb 12y ago
There is an XMPP standard for link-local messaging. It's supported in Empathy through the telepathy-salut library. In other words, it's installed by default on Ubuntu (though you need to turn it on) and presumably other distributions. It'd be nice to see mobile apps supporting this standard, too.

128 points by firehosed 12y ago

Browse to FireChat's domain here[0] for a complete view of the "Everyone" chat in your client IP's region. [0] https://opengarden.com:4176/ https://opengarden.com:4176/

kylelibra 12y ago

I downloaded this a few months back hoping that in NYC there would be enough user density to make it useful, but it seems I was too early. Interesting use case that protesting would be using it.

ethans92 12y ago
Would definitely be interesting to see it being used for entertainment purposes. But it appears its a "last resort" kind of app, especially with Hong Kong's situation. If people are growing more and more concerned with privacy that could be the nudge. Or if they offered something standard SMS cannot (speed, feature, etc.)
allard 12y ago
A couple months ago I installed this on two devices and could not get it to work off-net nor did I see a good description of how it is supposed to work in that case. I assume Wi-Fi and Bluetooth on but not connected to an access point. I have seen mesh alive with XO-1s.

cowsandmilk 12y ago

Despite what the author continually says, the interface does not say "Real Name" in the author's screenshots. As far as I have heard, no one has been prevented from having an account due to a "Real Name" policy. This is in stark contrast to Facebook, the major player in the "Real Name" game. I don't like Firechat requiring a signup, but the facts of what is required should not be confused. Pseudonymous use appears to be accepted.

niutech 12y ago

As an open source alternative, have a look at the Project Serval http://www.servalproject.org/ http://www.servalproject.org/

hyyypr 12y ago
This seems long dead, also didn't find a link to the source code.
- sleet 12y ago
  Source code: https://github.com/servalproject https://github.com/servalproject Activity: (1) https://github.com/servalproject/batphone/commits/development https://github.com/servalproject/batphone/commits/developmen... (2) http://developer.servalproject.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=content:activity:main_page http://developer.servalproject.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=cont...

wfunction 12y ago

Something I don't understand: can someone explain why FireChat needs an account when it doesn't require internet access?

rektide 12y ago
I believe an accounts basically stores your public key on their servers, so other people can verify with FireChat who it is that sent the message. In an offline context, you'd be able to get a lot of messages and tell that it's the same person talking, but you'll have no way to see whether that really is the person or not. FireChat's public key servers allow those with access to see- according to FireChat- who is talking.
- wfunction 12y ago
  How are you supposed to verify with FireChat who sent the message when you don't have an internet connection though? Are you supposed to route your (presumably encrypted) request through other (presumably connected) phones? What's the point of requiring an account when the their entire selling point is that you can use the app in places with no internet access at all, like the wilderness?
  - waps 12y ago
    This is easy to implement using cryptography. E.g. when firechat assigns a username, they sign your certificate for said username using their key. Then, when sending messages, they have to be signed with your key (or outright encrypted), and the receiver verifies the key is correctly signed using firechat's key.
- firehosed 12y ago
  You can impersonate other users.

golemotron 12y ago

I'd like to see someone make an app which only works in the nearby mode and requires no registration.

micampe 12y ago
Shortwave https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/shortwave-short-range-anonymous/id864480884?mt=8 https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/shortwave-short-range-anonym...

firehosed 12y ago

Is Firechat dead? "The server at opengarden.com is taking too long to respond."

tonylemesmer 12y ago
seems to be. I tried to connect using openssl and I imagine lots of other people are too :)

alanpoe918 12y ago

Anyone use the SDK ?

nemasu 12y ago

I took a look at FireChat, but bluetooth is a bit too 'nearby' for me. Very cool that it's off the grid, but only useful if you're basically right next to them anyways. I wanted something like: talk to everyone nearby in a football/hockey/tri-d chess stadium, but bluetooth falls a bit short. What would be really cool is if you could set up a relay system through other devices. I've made (i.e. works, but not polished yet) something similar: http://www.shoutium.com http://www.shoutium.com which has ranges of 1-100KM around your current location. It does require internet, so it probably isn't aimed at the firechat crowd anyways. Very few users unfortunately, guess I'll work on advertising after the iOS version is done -_-

riffic 12y ago
Slight (http://slight.la http://slight.la) is one way of leaving messages in a location; those running the app receive a notification when new messages are left nearby.
- nemasu 12y ago
  Ahhh, nice, I was thinking of adding this.
- lcedp 12y ago
  Does anyone know an alternative for Android?
higherpurpose 12y ago
I wonder of LTE Direct, which goes up to 500m would help that, but I'm worried the carriers will be able to control it somehow, which will make it kind of pointless in terms of decentralizing the technology. I'm also very disappointed in the Wi-Fi Alliance for not creating a better long-distance Wi-Fi. That's its future right there - disrupting cellular, and getting more people to prefer Wi-Fi over cellular. But that's only going to happen if we can easily create "mesh networks" across the country.
prawks 12y ago
YikYak is similar to what you're talking about, though it's anonymous by design. IIRC it's limited to a 10-mile radius. http://www.yikyakapp.com/ http://www.yikyakapp.com/

mxgr 12y ago

Is there something similar that is based on Wifi connections instead of bluetooth? Wouldn't that offer a greater range? Edit: Nevermind, the article explains that firechat does in fact use Wifi in addition to Bluetooth to transmit messages: From the first IP, I understand that Firechat is also looking to create bond between WiFi device. It periodically sends UDP packet to the multicast address 239.192.0.0 and will also forward message just as it does with bluetooth. So not only every message sent are forwarded by bluetooth, they are also forwarded by WiFi !

natar 12y ago

I saw this a few days ago in F-Droid's „Recently Added“ category, a bluetooth chat app called Gilgamesh: https://github.com/n8fr8/gilgamesh https://github.com/n8fr8/gilgamesh (https://f-droid.org/repository/browse/?fdid=info.guardianproject.gilga https://f-droid.org/repository/browse/?fdid=info.guardianpro...) Don't know if it's anonymous or encrypted (is that is even possible?) but other then Firechat (and most other apps linked here until now) it's Open Source. Would love to know what someone with a more technical expertise than me thinks about this.

worklogin 12y ago

This domain is flagged as "malicious software/botnets"... be careful clicking on this link!

rlpb 12y ago

There is an XMPP standard for link-local messaging. It's supported in Empathy through the telepathy-salut library. In other words, it's installed by default on Ubuntu (though you need to turn it on) and presumably other distributions. It'd be nice to see mobile apps supporting this standard, too.