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Hacked Screenshots Show Friend-To-Friend Payments Feature in Facebook Messenger

33 points by whbk 12y ago

SchizoDuckie 12y ago
The first thing I thought when reading the headline was: Yeah, let's give the most intrusive facebook app ever access to creditcard details wcgw!
- evv 12y ago
  How is the app overly intrusive? I doubt average the average facebook user feels that way
  - minimaxir 12y ago
    You missed the outrage when Facebook forced users to switch to Messager: http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2014/08/08/facebook-messenger-privacy-fears-heres-what-you-need-to-know/ http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2014/08/08/facebook-messenger-pr...
    - eli 12y ago
      Given how important Facebook is to so many people (plus just the sheer size of its userbase) I literally do not think it is possible for them to make any changes whatsoever that do not provoke some sort of backlash. If they merged Messenger back into the main app there would certainly be an uproar over that as well.
    - Ntrails 12y ago
      That's not entirely true - they forced me to uninstall the app and just use the website on my mobile browser. Depressingly I am pretty sure it's a better UX than the app was - just without notifications.
  - kazazes 12y ago
    While some of the more sensationalist parts of this were debunked, here [1] is the article that goes over a critical (non-technical) analysis of the binary itself. The app uses some private Apple APIs, including capturing the SSID of your wireless network. [1] http://motherboard.vice.com/en_uk/read/facebooks-messenger-app-is-tracking-a-lot-more-of-your-data-than-you-think http://motherboard.vice.com/en_uk/read/facebooks-messenger-a...
    - eli 12y ago
      I thought Apple automatically scanned and rejected apps for private API usage
      - mschuster91 12y ago
        Most likely FB will have an exception agreement with Apple. With their amounts of cash they can easily buy anything...
      - teej 12y ago
        They do. You can get around this with a little trickery, since they just scan for calls to specific method signatures.
        eli 12y ago
        I find it surprising that Apple puts up with blatant and conscious violations of their rules from such a high profile app.
- sfjailbird 12y ago
  With risk of coming off like that guy... This is why I would prefer bitcoin for something like this. I don't want to give someone my credit card and trust that they will only charge what I ask them. And I think in the long run, more people would use these kinds of services if they didn't have to do that.
kylelibra 12y ago
Good lesson to remind my developers to stop putting WIP of unannounced features in release builds.
- pyre 12y ago
  Depends. Maybe the production version is used for testing the feature, but is only enabled for certain users.
  - kylelibra 12y ago
    Good point, I hadn't considered that. Made the comment mainly because we had an incident a few weeks back where a client saw a bunch of stuff in a production version that was definitely never supposed to see the light of day and put us in a very awkward position.
  - mschuster91 12y ago
    Yeah, I remember a HN post a couple of weeks ago about FB where they do A/B testing with their users in the app.
icpmacdo 12y ago
Im excited for this. When hanging out with friends we will often get a pizza or something of that nature but it is always determined by who has cash on them, its not going to be a hassle anymore reimbursing them to the exact penny for each persons share because they are all in the FB ecosystem.
- ams6110 12y ago
  Yes we can certainly all breathe easier now! I know when I'm out with friends my enjoyment is so often ruined by the worry that the accounting isn't balanced to the penny.
  - Mandatum 12y ago
    Well that just isn't very nice. To be fair I'd really like to see this implemented. Pitching in on gifts/dinner/tickets would be so much easier with this rather than having to give my bank account number out and checking for payment..
- ztnewman 12y ago
  Because there aren't dozens of other ways to do this already..
  - brownnoser 12y ago
    There were tons of search engines before Google came along. Uber had existed, why use Lyft? You get the idea...
  - icpmacdo 12y ago
    > because they are all in the FB ecosystem Ya dozens of app's to make them install or I could let them know about a feature on an app that every single person I am friends with uses.
wellboy 12y ago
This is huge. Social payments could be the biggest business model for Facebook and even blast their revenues way past $100B. Lots of startups, many great ones have attempted it before, but all failed due to lack of traction. Facebook doesn't have this problem and could thus bring social payments finally to success. This is where we will now be able to see how much TRUST affects a company. The Facebook brand is currently viewed as very negative and could be the reason, why this business model could be completely rejected by its users.
- onedev 12y ago
  To your point, PayPal is also seen as a very negative brand and they continue to thrive.
Mandatum 12y ago
Would like an open standard defined for bank account integration. Unfortunately that's unlikely to happen given the mass amounts of banks and their relationship with credit-card companies. (ie Why implement bank-to-bank transfers where there's no margin to be made in comparison to credit-cards?)
- bruceboughton 12y ago
  In the UK we have recently standardised on PayM for mobile transfers keyed by phone number. It's actually pretty good. Barclays PingIt was the earlier player here.
veermishra0803 12y ago
A friend to friend payment system in facebook messenger is a killer. Now i want to see what will be the move of all the p2p money sending apps, as many are coming up with it here in India. Excited to test it.
likethebird 12y ago
The question I have is if this is an attempt to take away PayPal's market or add to it...that is unclear to me. If you've done a boosted post or an advertisement on facebook, you know you can pay via PayPal. I, for one, won't enter a credit or debit card but would do this if I could link it to Pp. ...but then again, it is not often I owe my friends money.
- camillomiller 12y ago
  This strikes me more as a tentative to increase users-value by coming out with cool stuff that would tie them to a credit card.
hendzen 12y ago
I kind of would expect them to acquire Venmo before trying to build this. Venmo already has a lot of traction in this area.
- rory096 12y ago
  Venmo is already owned by Braintree, which is owned by PayPal.
  - hendzen 12y ago
    I wasn't aware of that actually. Seems like everyone I know is using Venmo already - including having it linked to their bank accounts. Not sure I would trust FB with my bank information.
tvhiggins 12y ago
As long as all these new payment platforms like this, apple pay, and square use credit cards, i don't really consider them that innovative. different way to skin the same cat.

33 points by whbk 12y ago

The first thing I thought when reading the headline was: Yeah, let's give the most intrusive facebook app ever access to creditcard details wcgw!

evv 12y ago
How is the app overly intrusive? I doubt average the average facebook user feels that way
- minimaxir 12y ago
  You missed the outrage when Facebook forced users to switch to Messager: http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2014/08/08/facebook-messenger-privacy-fears-heres-what-you-need-to-know/ http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2014/08/08/facebook-messenger-pr...
  - eli 12y ago
    Given how important Facebook is to so many people (plus just the sheer size of its userbase) I literally do not think it is possible for them to make any changes whatsoever that do not provoke some sort of backlash. If they merged Messenger back into the main app there would certainly be an uproar over that as well.
  - Ntrails 12y ago
    That's not entirely true - they forced me to uninstall the app and just use the website on my mobile browser. Depressingly I am pretty sure it's a better UX than the app was - just without notifications.
- kazazes 12y ago
  While some of the more sensationalist parts of this were debunked, here [1] is the article that goes over a critical (non-technical) analysis of the binary itself. The app uses some private Apple APIs, including capturing the SSID of your wireless network. [1] http://motherboard.vice.com/en_uk/read/facebooks-messenger-app-is-tracking-a-lot-more-of-your-data-than-you-think http://motherboard.vice.com/en_uk/read/facebooks-messenger-a...
  - eli 12y ago
    I thought Apple automatically scanned and rejected apps for private API usage
    - mschuster91 12y ago
      Most likely FB will have an exception agreement with Apple. With their amounts of cash they can easily buy anything...
    - teej 12y ago
      They do. You can get around this with a little trickery, since they just scan for calls to specific method signatures.
      - eli 12y ago
        I find it surprising that Apple puts up with blatant and conscious violations of their rules from such a high profile app.
sfjailbird 12y ago
With risk of coming off like that guy... This is why I would prefer bitcoin for something like this. I don't want to give someone my credit card and trust that they will only charge what I ask them. And I think in the long run, more people would use these kinds of services if they didn't have to do that.

kylelibra 12y ago

Good lesson to remind my developers to stop putting WIP of unannounced features in release builds.

pyre 12y ago
Depends. Maybe the production version is used for testing the feature, but is only enabled for certain users.
- kylelibra 12y ago
  Good point, I hadn't considered that. Made the comment mainly because we had an incident a few weeks back where a client saw a bunch of stuff in a production version that was definitely never supposed to see the light of day and put us in a very awkward position.
- mschuster91 12y ago
  Yeah, I remember a HN post a couple of weeks ago about FB where they do A/B testing with their users in the app.

icpmacdo 12y ago

Im excited for this. When hanging out with friends we will often get a pizza or something of that nature but it is always determined by who has cash on them, its not going to be a hassle anymore reimbursing them to the exact penny for each persons share because they are all in the FB ecosystem.

ams6110 12y ago
Yes we can certainly all breathe easier now! I know when I'm out with friends my enjoyment is so often ruined by the worry that the accounting isn't balanced to the penny.
- Mandatum 12y ago
  Well that just isn't very nice. To be fair I'd really like to see this implemented. Pitching in on gifts/dinner/tickets would be so much easier with this rather than having to give my bank account number out and checking for payment..
ztnewman 12y ago
Because there aren't dozens of other ways to do this already..
- brownnoser 12y ago
  There were tons of search engines before Google came along. Uber had existed, why use Lyft? You get the idea...
- icpmacdo 12y ago
  > because they are all in the FB ecosystem Ya dozens of app's to make them install or I could let them know about a feature on an app that every single person I am friends with uses.

wellboy 12y ago

This is huge. Social payments could be the biggest business model for Facebook and even blast their revenues way past $100B. Lots of startups, many great ones have attempted it before, but all failed due to lack of traction. Facebook doesn't have this problem and could thus bring social payments finally to success. This is where we will now be able to see how much TRUST affects a company. The Facebook brand is currently viewed as very negative and could be the reason, why this business model could be completely rejected by its users.

onedev 12y ago
To your point, PayPal is also seen as a very negative brand and they continue to thrive.

Mandatum 12y ago

Would like an open standard defined for bank account integration. Unfortunately that's unlikely to happen given the mass amounts of banks and their relationship with credit-card companies. (ie Why implement bank-to-bank transfers where there's no margin to be made in comparison to credit-cards?)

bruceboughton 12y ago
In the UK we have recently standardised on PayM for mobile transfers keyed by phone number. It's actually pretty good. Barclays PingIt was the earlier player here.

veermishra0803 12y ago

A friend to friend payment system in facebook messenger is a killer. Now i want to see what will be the move of all the p2p money sending apps, as many are coming up with it here in India. Excited to test it.

likethebird 12y ago

The question I have is if this is an attempt to take away PayPal's market or add to it...that is unclear to me. If you've done a boosted post or an advertisement on facebook, you know you can pay via PayPal. I, for one, won't enter a credit or debit card but would do this if I could link it to Pp. ...but then again, it is not often I owe my friends money.

camillomiller 12y ago
This strikes me more as a tentative to increase users-value by coming out with cool stuff that would tie them to a credit card.

hendzen 12y ago

I kind of would expect them to acquire Venmo before trying to build this. Venmo already has a lot of traction in this area.

rory096 12y ago
Venmo is already owned by Braintree, which is owned by PayPal.
- hendzen 12y ago
  I wasn't aware of that actually. Seems like everyone I know is using Venmo already - including having it linked to their bank accounts. Not sure I would trust FB with my bank information.

tvhiggins 12y ago

As long as all these new payment platforms like this, apple pay, and square use credit cards, i don't really consider them that innovative. different way to skin the same cat.