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So how else do I do Zen? (That is a serious question!)

nemo 12y ago
It's a practice more than an analysis, so to do it you practice Zen exercises. The central exercise is meditation. Thinking about meditation is like thinking about push-ups. A little analysis helps to refine the form, but it's not the point.
- ThomPete 12y ago
  Practice leads to Zen. Practice isn't Zen. But yeah otherwise i agree.
  - quonn 12y ago
    You will be hard pressed to find a Zen teacher who would deny that practise is Zen. It does certainly not "lead to Zen". E.g. "Enlightenment and Practise are one" (Dogen), "There is no Zen master in great (Sung) China", the frequent warnings against step-ladder Zen, the idea that Zen is not useful and nothing is gained, "there is only the way, beginning, middle and end" etc.
    - ThomPete 12y ago
      You don't need to practice to "get to Zen". The point is this. You can say that practice is Zen but in that perspective everything is Zen because everything is practice.
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
mping 12y ago
Find a teacher. Humbly ask for instructions. Follow instructions.
abibibo 12y ago
Zazen (za: seated, zen:meditation) is central to nearly every school of zen Buddhism. The name of zen alludes to this, and Watts' translation of chan/dhyuna as emptiness rather then meditation is unusual. Zen emerged in response to certain schools of bhudhism which put emphasis on making offerings and gaining merit over meditation. So in some respects it was de-empasizing religious ritual as the article alludes (though I feel authentic zen is very much a religion, albeit without a creator), but this was to put the emphasis back on meditation. Watts' de-emphasis of zazen in zen is therfore quite ironic. To do zen, set some time aside each day to sit in a dignified pasture and place your awareness on your breath. As your mind wanders, notice this and bring your attention back to your breath. Repeat a hundred thousand times. Over time, the emptiness of these thoughts becomes apparent and your attachment to them weakens. But, don't attach to this emptiness either.
ThomPete 12y ago
You are.
- ThomPete 12y ago
  (Why the downvote? Thats a serious answer)
devuo 12y ago
Read D.T Suzuki "Essays in Zen Buddhism"
nabla9 12y ago
Zen is meditation first school of Buddhism. You must learn to do zazen (zen meditation). In other words, sit down and shut up. If you want to become Buddha, do what Buddha did and don't just listen and think about what he said. I'm myself a Zen Buddhist, I train with a teacher and have spend time zen training in a zen temple and attend sesshins regularly. I'm also very secular and atheist person who don't like organized religion. It's miracle that I can coexist with religious setting, but I do it because I see Buddhsit Zen teachers as experienced coaches and temple as training facility. I also know that he is not going to indoctrinate me for anything superstitions despite his own beliefs that are different from mine (there are number of rotten zen teachers though). If I were to describe what zazen meditation[1] is using as scientific terms as possible, I would say that it's developing and directing your attention towards higher temporal resolution and developing the ability of keeping it there (always below 1s and it can go as low as ~40 Hz). You can put your poet hat on and call it "living in this moment", "looking at the reality", "awakening to reality", "seeing the world as it really is", "impermanence" or "looking into yourself/mind", but that's what it really is in my opinion. You can't have complex philosophical toughs in such a short time. You can only see 'thoughtlets' (small incomplete toughs) forming and fading away in fractions of second. It's like using low level debugger into the functioning of yor mind (debugger being directed attention). --- [1] Same thing with most other awareness style Buddhist meditation traditions. You learn to see similarities with other traditions when you practice. Zazen is often more spartan and simplified and vital (not for everyone). Nice description of the differences between Zen and Vipassana styles by Shinzen Young http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WiM-w5qqmE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WiM-w5qqmE
- orasis 12y ago
  "I'm also very secular and atheist person who don't like organized religion." Its fantastic that it works for you. For me, This is exactly why I couldn't handle Zen. It feels too much like the hierarchical church patriarchy. Due to this I've gravitated towards the Pragmatic Dharma crowd which tends to be a mix of Theravada and Advaita practices (though rejecting Advaita view). Some resources for the looks-like-religion allergic: http://kennethfolkdharma.com/quick-start-guide/ http://kennethfolkdharma.com/quick-start-guide/ http://www.dharmaoverground.org http://www.dharmaoverground.org http://awakenetwork.org http://awakenetwork.org

nemo 12y ago

It's a practice more than an analysis, so to do it you practice Zen exercises. The central exercise is meditation. Thinking about meditation is like thinking about push-ups. A little analysis helps to refine the form, but it's not the point.

ThomPete 12y ago
Practice leads to Zen. Practice isn't Zen. But yeah otherwise i agree.
- quonn 12y ago
  You will be hard pressed to find a Zen teacher who would deny that practise is Zen. It does certainly not "lead to Zen". E.g. "Enlightenment and Practise are one" (Dogen), "There is no Zen master in great (Sung) China", the frequent warnings against step-ladder Zen, the idea that Zen is not useful and nothing is gained, "there is only the way, beginning, middle and end" etc.
  - ThomPete 12y ago
    You don't need to practice to "get to Zen". The point is this. You can say that practice is Zen but in that perspective everything is Zen because everything is practice.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]

mping 12y ago

Find a teacher. Humbly ask for instructions. Follow instructions.

abibibo 12y ago

Zazen (za: seated, zen:meditation) is central to nearly every school of zen Buddhism. The name of zen alludes to this, and Watts' translation of chan/dhyuna as emptiness rather then meditation is unusual. Zen emerged in response to certain schools of bhudhism which put emphasis on making offerings and gaining merit over meditation. So in some respects it was de-empasizing religious ritual as the article alludes (though I feel authentic zen is very much a religion, albeit without a creator), but this was to put the emphasis back on meditation. Watts' de-emphasis of zazen in zen is therfore quite ironic. To do zen, set some time aside each day to sit in a dignified pasture and place your awareness on your breath. As your mind wanders, notice this and bring your attention back to your breath. Repeat a hundred thousand times. Over time, the emptiness of these thoughts becomes apparent and your attachment to them weakens. But, don't attach to this emptiness either.

ThomPete 12y ago

You are.

ThomPete 12y ago
(Why the downvote? Thats a serious answer)

devuo 12y ago

Read D.T Suzuki "Essays in Zen Buddhism"

nabla9 12y ago

Zen is meditation first school of Buddhism. You must learn to do zazen (zen meditation). In other words, sit down and shut up. If you want to become Buddha, do what Buddha did and don't just listen and think about what he said. I'm myself a Zen Buddhist, I train with a teacher and have spend time zen training in a zen temple and attend sesshins regularly. I'm also very secular and atheist person who don't like organized religion. It's miracle that I can coexist with religious setting, but I do it because I see Buddhsit Zen teachers as experienced coaches and temple as training facility. I also know that he is not going to indoctrinate me for anything superstitions despite his own beliefs that are different from mine (there are number of rotten zen teachers though). If I were to describe what zazen meditation[1] is using as scientific terms as possible, I would say that it's developing and directing your attention towards higher temporal resolution and developing the ability of keeping it there (always below 1s and it can go as low as ~40 Hz). You can put your poet hat on and call it "living in this moment", "looking at the reality", "awakening to reality", "seeing the world as it really is", "impermanence" or "looking into yourself/mind", but that's what it really is in my opinion. You can't have complex philosophical toughs in such a short time. You can only see 'thoughtlets' (small incomplete toughs) forming and fading away in fractions of second. It's like using low level debugger into the functioning of yor mind (debugger being directed attention). --- [1] Same thing with most other awareness style Buddhist meditation traditions. You learn to see similarities with other traditions when you practice. Zazen is often more spartan and simplified and vital (not for everyone). Nice description of the differences between Zen and Vipassana styles by Shinzen Young http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WiM-w5qqmE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WiM-w5qqmE

orasis 12y ago
"I'm also very secular and atheist person who don't like organized religion." Its fantastic that it works for you. For me, This is exactly why I couldn't handle Zen. It feels too much like the hierarchical church patriarchy. Due to this I've gravitated towards the Pragmatic Dharma crowd which tends to be a mix of Theravada and Advaita practices (though rejecting Advaita view). Some resources for the looks-like-religion allergic: http://kennethfolkdharma.com/quick-start-guide/ http://kennethfolkdharma.com/quick-start-guide/ http://www.dharmaoverground.org http://www.dharmaoverground.org http://awakenetwork.org http://awakenetwork.org