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Liberia population: ~4m Budget you declare: $449m UK population: 63m Budget of the NHS: £109b = $174b People employed by NHS: 1.35m people To match the NHS

by swombat 12y ago

Liberia population: ~4m Budget you declare: $449m UK population: 63m Budget of the NHS: £109b = $174b People employed by NHS: 1.35m people To match the NHS, Liberia would need $11b, almost 25 times the amount of aid it's receiving. Hell, that's 5 times the GDP of Liberia at the moment. It would also need to train 85,000 medical professionals (doctors and nurses mostly) - all that in a country that's just emerging out of war (basically 20 years of civil war ending 9 years ago), has low education levels (60% literacy - 4 in 10 people you meet can't read and write), zero infrastructure, etc. Let's not forget that the NHS has been receiving that sort of funding for many decades - today's infrastructure builds on yesterday's infrastructure, etc. I put it to you that the NHS would be brought to its knees by 3000 Ebola cases to deal with. If we ever let it get that bad in the UK, the only way we're getting out of that is through a complete country shutdown (if that's even possible in our supermarket-driven world - people would starve; starving people tend to do stupid things to get food). Blame corruption all you want (though ironically, Liberia had elections that were widely regarded as fair, and that resulted in electing a highly qualified, female president, in 2005), but I think in Liberia's case it is totally fair to say that with or without corruption this country is extremely ill-equipped to deal with an Ebola epidemic. Links: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberia http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/thenhs/about/Pages/overview.aspx http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/thenhs/about/Pages/overview.asp...

fractallyte 12y ago
No, this is about basic readiness for a number of contagions that are endemic to the region, which should be prominent on a list of healthcare priorities. Nine years is a considerable time to be able to fix many of the problems you mention. After all those billions of dollars in aid, where is the infrastructure? Education? Compare to post WWII Japan or Korea... And a comparison to the NHS behemoth - a model of mismanagement, waste, and inefficiency - is not a good one.
- lotsofmangos 12y ago
  Ebola isn't endemic to Liberia and on health outcomes for money spent per head, the NHS is considered to be one of the most efficient health care systems in the world, according to the people who actually measure these things rather than just spouting off stuff they think might be true.
  - fractallyte 12y ago
    The people who measure these things would probably disagree with you. A small, random, selection: https://www.openrightsgroup.org/blog/2007/system-failure-private-eye-report-into-nhs-it https://www.openrightsgroup.org/blog/2007/system-failure-pri... http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/Health/article1298986.ece http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/Health/arti... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-12338984 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-12338984
    - lotsofmangos 12y ago
      One computer system overspend, the opinion of Jeremy Hunt, and a report saying half a percent of the budget could be saved by being more careful when buying stuff like office supplies. I note that none of those things is a comparison of NHS with other health systems. These are though: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/8877412/NHS-among-best-health-care-systems-in-the-world.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/8877412/NHS-amo... http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2014/06/16/once-again-u-s-has-most-expensive-least-effective-health-care-system-in-survey/# http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2014/06... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10375877 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10375877 http://eprints.lse.ac.uk/42050/1/How_the_NHS_measures_up_to_other_health_systems_%28LSERO%29.pdf http://eprints.lse.ac.uk/42050/1/How_the_NHS_measures_up_to_... http://shr.sagepub.com/content/2/7/60.abstract http://shr.sagepub.com/content/2/7/60.abstract The worst recent estimate I could find was Bloomberg, who had the UK as 10th out of 51 countries studied, with the US coming in at 41st. http://www.bloomberg.com/visual-data/best-and-worst/most-efficient-health-care-2014-countries http://www.bloomberg.com/visual-data/best-and-worst/most-eff...

by swombat 12y ago

fractallyte 12y ago

No, this is about basic readiness for a number of contagions that are endemic to the region, which should be prominent on a list of healthcare priorities. Nine years is a considerable time to be able to fix many of the problems you mention. After all those billions of dollars in aid, where is the infrastructure? Education? Compare to post WWII Japan or Korea... And a comparison to the NHS behemoth - a model of mismanagement, waste, and inefficiency - is not a good one.

lotsofmangos 12y ago
Ebola isn't endemic to Liberia and on health outcomes for money spent per head, the NHS is considered to be one of the most efficient health care systems in the world, according to the people who actually measure these things rather than just spouting off stuff they think might be true.
- fractallyte 12y ago
  The people who measure these things would probably disagree with you. A small, random, selection: https://www.openrightsgroup.org/blog/2007/system-failure-private-eye-report-into-nhs-it https://www.openrightsgroup.org/blog/2007/system-failure-pri... http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/Health/article1298986.ece http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/Health/arti... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-12338984 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-12338984
  - lotsofmangos 12y ago
    One computer system overspend, the opinion of Jeremy Hunt, and a report saying half a percent of the budget could be saved by being more careful when buying stuff like office supplies. I note that none of those things is a comparison of NHS with other health systems. These are though: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/8877412/NHS-among-best-health-care-systems-in-the-world.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/8877412/NHS-amo... http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2014/06/16/once-again-u-s-has-most-expensive-least-effective-health-care-system-in-survey/# http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2014/06... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10375877 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10375877 http://eprints.lse.ac.uk/42050/1/How_the_NHS_measures_up_to_other_health_systems_%28LSERO%29.pdf http://eprints.lse.ac.uk/42050/1/How_the_NHS_measures_up_to_... http://shr.sagepub.com/content/2/7/60.abstract http://shr.sagepub.com/content/2/7/60.abstract The worst recent estimate I could find was Bloomberg, who had the UK as 10th out of 51 countries studied, with the US coming in at 41st. http://www.bloomberg.com/visual-data/best-and-worst/most-efficient-health-care-2014-countries http://www.bloomberg.com/visual-data/best-and-worst/most-eff...