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I may respond to more aspects of your comment later, but I wanted to make a few quick points. > They've always been fast. Yes, and now, I'd argue, they are

by joeyo 17y ago

I may respond to more aspects of your comment later, but I wanted to make a few quick points. > They've always been fast. Yes, and now, I'd argue, they are even faster. Unfortunately, I am not aware of any good studies about meme transmission rate-- it's the sort of thing that is difficult to measure without affecting the meme in the process of measuring. Data from a botnet would be ideal. > The thing is, memes reflect a community's insider aspect. If you > see a meme and allow it, you're allowing that self-congratulatory > "We're on the Internet and know what the Internet thinks" This is of course true. But don't forget that much social behavior is about fitting-in better with ones peers. It's a signal that says "I belong here" or "We are a part of the same tribe". Again, not unique to the internet at all. It's just much faster lately. > usually aren't funny or clever beyond being repetitive, so don't > get upvotes by non-kneejerkers. I don't claim to have a complete theory of humor, but a big part of what makes something funny is repetition coupled with subtle changes in the pattern. Many memes, especially of the ytmnd or 4chan variety, tap into this to great effect. I can think of more than a couple which I thought were uninteresting in their original presentation that became outstanding after several iterations. Also, note how many memes use self-reference and absurdity. This is the essence of post-modernism. Again, this is nothing new, but memes certainly allow exposure of these themes to a very broad audience. Finally, with respect to your assertion that "very rarely is a meme used alongside relevant information," I note that your own post contradicts this.

unalone 17y ago
This is of course true. But don't forget that much social behavior is about fitting-in better with ones peers. It's a signal that says "I belong here" or "We are a part of the same tribe". Again, not unique to the internet at all. It's just much faster lately. Oh, absolutely! It's the same reason why music scenes fall apart and various cities rise and fall as the center of activity. Once something gets known past a point, it gets diluted. The Internet's just the latest thing to stop being cool when people get more involved. I don't claim to have a complete theory of humor, but a big part of what makes something funny is repetition coupled with subtle changes in the pattern. Many memes, especially of the ytmnd or 4chan variety, tap into this to great effect. I can think of more than a couple which I thought were uninteresting in their original presentation that became outstanding after several iterations. Definitely. I love memes. But they've got the same 99:1 ratio of shit:clever as anything else. The problem with them on a social news site in particular is that because they're such an everybody-knows-us safety net, once they gain traction they drown out other things, and they work with both dumb and clever people. Compare that to actual discussions, where the good tends to rise to the top since the bad is either easily identified or can be identified. Also, note how many memes use self-reference and absurdity. This is the essence of post-modernism. Again, this is nothing new, but memes certainly allow exposure of these themes to a very broad audience. Agreed again. Problem again is that they don't coexist well with other elements of conversation. (I have the same problem with people who quote memes in real life. Very unappealing, that.) Finally, with respect to your assertion that "very rarely is a meme used alongside relevant information," I note that your own post contradicts this. I saw an opening and had to go for it. Didn't want to be giving memes a bad name. ;-)
- joeyo 17y ago
  It sounds you we're pretty much in agreement and you just find memes annoying in some contexts. No argument there. I wouldn't look for them to go away anytime soon, though. If anything I'd expect things to get considerably "worse" in terms of some especially prevalent memes becoming further embedded in culture. It doesn't look like lolcats are showing any signs of slowing down, for example.

by joeyo 17y ago

unalone 17y ago

This is of course true. But don't forget that much social behavior is about fitting-in better with ones peers. It's a signal that says "I belong here" or "We are a part of the same tribe". Again, not unique to the internet at all. It's just much faster lately. Oh, absolutely! It's the same reason why music scenes fall apart and various cities rise and fall as the center of activity. Once something gets known past a point, it gets diluted. The Internet's just the latest thing to stop being cool when people get more involved. I don't claim to have a complete theory of humor, but a big part of what makes something funny is repetition coupled with subtle changes in the pattern. Many memes, especially of the ytmnd or 4chan variety, tap into this to great effect. I can think of more than a couple which I thought were uninteresting in their original presentation that became outstanding after several iterations. Definitely. I love memes. But they've got the same 99:1 ratio of shit:clever as anything else. The problem with them on a social news site in particular is that because they're such an everybody-knows-us safety net, once they gain traction they drown out other things, and they work with both dumb and clever people. Compare that to actual discussions, where the good tends to rise to the top since the bad is either easily identified or can be identified. Also, note how many memes use self-reference and absurdity. This is the essence of post-modernism. Again, this is nothing new, but memes certainly allow exposure of these themes to a very broad audience. Agreed again. Problem again is that they don't coexist well with other elements of conversation. (I have the same problem with people who quote memes in real life. Very unappealing, that.) Finally, with respect to your assertion that "very rarely is a meme used alongside relevant information," I note that your own post contradicts this. I saw an opening and had to go for it. Didn't want to be giving memes a bad name. ;-)

joeyo 17y ago
It sounds you we're pretty much in agreement and you just find memes annoying in some contexts. No argument there. I wouldn't look for them to go away anytime soon, though. If anything I'd expect things to get considerably "worse" in terms of some especially prevalent memes becoming further embedded in culture. It doesn't look like lolcats are showing any signs of slowing down, for example.