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I blame Islam. How insecure do you have to be about your violent beliefs that you have to kidnap and torture somebody who you think participated in insulting y

I blame Islam. How insecure do you have to be about your violent beliefs that you have to kidnap and torture somebody who you think participated in insulting your beliefs. The charges against him are insane, just like the religion itself.

a3n 12y ago
This doesn't take religion. I often say that barbarism is not far behind us, but that may be too generous.
schrodinger 12y ago
This is a really ignorant comment, and it's not fair to blame the acts of some bad people on everyone associated with a religion
- imaginenore 12y ago
  Are you saying there's no problem with Islamic violence? Have you been living under a rock? I base my judgement on what the Muslims say about themselves: http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/vubyx/only_a_tiny_minority_of_extremists/ http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/vubyx/only_a_tiny_m...
  - lukifer 12y ago
    Muslims are not homogeneous, and none can speak for the whole.
  - pyre 12y ago
    Are you saying there's no problem with Christian bigotry? Have you been living under a rock? I base my judgement on what the Christians say about themselves: http://www.godhatesfags.com/ http://www.godhatesfags.com/
    - imaginenore 12y ago
      You're comparing a tiny tiny Christian church with 30% to 90%+ of the Muslim population. And yeah, Christians do crazy stuff in the name of their religion too all the time. I don't see how that whitewashes Islamic crimes.
      - pyre 12y ago
        > 30% to 90%+ of the Muslim population > 30% to 90%+ This figure has no basis in reality. Even if you cobbled together this opinion from multiple 'surveys' a range that large is meaningless. Why not just say that 0% to 100% of Muslims feel this way, and call it a day? That way it would be impossible to be wrong!
        imaginenore 12y ago
        It's a range of different surveys on different questions. If you take a particular question, like whether those who quit Islam should be killed, it's not a wide range.
        pyre 12y ago
        Well, why don't you enlighten us by posting links to these surveys?
  - neya 12y ago
    >what the Muslims say about themselves I'm no Muslim (just to clarify absence of personal bias), but your statement represents the ideology of a small sample, claiming to represent the ideologies of a collective, larger, possibly different sample (the entire Muslim population), with which it may not even be compatible with. And therein lies the flaw.
  - smtddr 12y ago
    Who hijacked my religion --- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQnxnYEVp4U http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQnxnYEVp4U http://www.newrepublic.com/article/119694/how-blonde-tattooed-texas-girl-became-isis-twitter-star http://www.newrepublic.com/article/119694/how-blonde-tattooe... >>Non-Muslims sometimes don’t realize how much hatred and negativity gets thrown at Muslims and how utterly soul crushing it can be to have to defend yourself and your beliefs on a daily basis.
  - dang 12y ago
    Religious flamewars are not ok on Hacker News. Please stop.
Alupis 12y ago
There is no place on HN for bigotry. There is nothing wrong with Islam itself. You confuse radicals, which are present in every major religion, even Christianity.
- meritt 12y ago
  While I don't disagree that his comment is inappropriate, this has nothing to do with radicals. It's simply http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia which is used for criminal law in a number of countries including Iran, Iraq and Saudi Arabia.
  - Alupis 12y ago
    Sharia doesn't define kidnapping, 6+ years of imprisonment + torture and fake confessions. That is radical.
    - stickfigure 12y ago
      This sounds similar to arguments that Nazism doesn't define the wholesale slaughter of jews. But if you take that philosophy to its logical conclusion, it's hard to see how you wouldn't end up there. That systems of law based on thoughtcrime tend to get violent should not be a surprise to anyone.
      - Alupis 12y ago
        Careful with your analogy - recall your history here, Nazism does not define "wholesale slaughter of jews", they were a political party. Majority of the Nazi party, military, and regime had no clue about the "wholesale slaughter of jews" until after the war. Most knew about the imprisonment, similar to the internment camps here in the US during the war, but the actual executions were kept very down-low. Of the ones that did know about the executions en mass, majority had issue with it, and famously some officers defected, some tried to assassinate Hitler, and some were themselves imprisoned for not cooperating and going along. The point is, just because there are a few who use their religion, affiliations, or power to drive forward an agenda, does not mean the entire mass thinks or feels the same way.
boynamedsue 12y ago
This is one of the few instances on HN where I've immediately felt the need to downvote a comment.
- keyme 12y ago
  Why? Is it because in your sheltered view of reality all religions are reformed, and everyone is just longing to live by the values you believe in? Please. Just as smaller cults that are considered to be dangerous. The freedom of religions that have something to say about who lives and who dies should be "reconsidered". You can say that Christians have some extremists too, and that's true. These rules need to apply to them too. However, you don't see the Pope calling for the extermination of the infidels, do you?
  - boynamedsue 12y ago
    No. It's because I don't think 1.5 billion people can easily be categorized by the actions of a minority.
gorhill 12y ago
I blame unnaccountability.
- gorhill 12y ago
  I had this in mind when I posted my comment: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/10/06/law-3 http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/10/06/law-3 Of course the context is entirely different, yet many aspects are similar. To me it appears it is power with no accountability which lead to these abuses. You can find this everywhere, no need to attribute it to one specific religion.
primitivesuave 12y ago
Please don't pollute HN. It's the last sanctuary I have from comments like this.
rustyconover 12y ago
I blame ignorance rather than religion. A particular religion is the flavor of the week or few centuries, but lack of actual understanding is the reason for this situation and most other religious strife. For if people understood what this man did, like all of us do, they'd see their accusations are without merit. Education and religion were tightly intertwined for centuries and still are in the regions with most the perceived "problems" now. Often the only education you can receive in these countries and regions is at a madras and perspectives outside of the dogma in the curriculum don't exist and are suppressed. Say what you want about the US and Western education system's failings, but it sure gets this part of the test 100% right. Of course, discounting strange behavior in Texas regarding creationism and disputing evolution. And a few other rural places pushing their locally artisan agendas of ignorance.
jculvey 12y ago
Then how do you explain things like genocide in Rwanda and cartel killings in Central America? Islam? The fact of the matter is, humans by and large have been pretty shitty throughout history. Some places in this world are on a different timeline. Some happen to be Muslim countries, others happen to be Christian, and some have no majority religion at all. Stoning people for adultery, beheading people over drug possession, and a lack of women's rights are all things you could criticize muslim countries for wrt Shariah law. Torturing people over political dissent isn't.

a3n 12y ago

This doesn't take religion. I often say that barbarism is not far behind us, but that may be too generous.

schrodinger 12y ago

This is a really ignorant comment, and it's not fair to blame the acts of some bad people on everyone associated with a religion

imaginenore 12y ago
Are you saying there's no problem with Islamic violence? Have you been living under a rock? I base my judgement on what the Muslims say about themselves: http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/vubyx/only_a_tiny_minority_of_extremists/ http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/vubyx/only_a_tiny_m...
- lukifer 12y ago
  Muslims are not homogeneous, and none can speak for the whole.
- pyre 12y ago
  Are you saying there's no problem with Christian bigotry? Have you been living under a rock? I base my judgement on what the Christians say about themselves: http://www.godhatesfags.com/ http://www.godhatesfags.com/
  - imaginenore 12y ago
    You're comparing a tiny tiny Christian church with 30% to 90%+ of the Muslim population. And yeah, Christians do crazy stuff in the name of their religion too all the time. I don't see how that whitewashes Islamic crimes.
    - pyre 12y ago
      > 30% to 90%+ of the Muslim population > 30% to 90%+ This figure has no basis in reality. Even if you cobbled together this opinion from multiple 'surveys' a range that large is meaningless. Why not just say that 0% to 100% of Muslims feel this way, and call it a day? That way it would be impossible to be wrong!
      - imaginenore 12y ago
        It's a range of different surveys on different questions. If you take a particular question, like whether those who quit Islam should be killed, it's not a wide range.
        pyre 12y ago
        Well, why don't you enlighten us by posting links to these surveys?
- neya 12y ago
  >what the Muslims say about themselves I'm no Muslim (just to clarify absence of personal bias), but your statement represents the ideology of a small sample, claiming to represent the ideologies of a collective, larger, possibly different sample (the entire Muslim population), with which it may not even be compatible with. And therein lies the flaw.
- smtddr 12y ago
  Who hijacked my religion --- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQnxnYEVp4U http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQnxnYEVp4U http://www.newrepublic.com/article/119694/how-blonde-tattooed-texas-girl-became-isis-twitter-star http://www.newrepublic.com/article/119694/how-blonde-tattooe... >>Non-Muslims sometimes don’t realize how much hatred and negativity gets thrown at Muslims and how utterly soul crushing it can be to have to defend yourself and your beliefs on a daily basis.
- dang 12y ago
  Religious flamewars are not ok on Hacker News. Please stop.

Alupis 12y ago

There is no place on HN for bigotry. There is nothing wrong with Islam itself. You confuse radicals, which are present in every major religion, even Christianity.

meritt 12y ago
While I don't disagree that his comment is inappropriate, this has nothing to do with radicals. It's simply http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia which is used for criminal law in a number of countries including Iran, Iraq and Saudi Arabia.
- Alupis 12y ago
  Sharia doesn't define kidnapping, 6+ years of imprisonment + torture and fake confessions. That is radical.
  - stickfigure 12y ago
    This sounds similar to arguments that Nazism doesn't define the wholesale slaughter of jews. But if you take that philosophy to its logical conclusion, it's hard to see how you wouldn't end up there. That systems of law based on thoughtcrime tend to get violent should not be a surprise to anyone.
    - Alupis 12y ago
      Careful with your analogy - recall your history here, Nazism does not define "wholesale slaughter of jews", they were a political party. Majority of the Nazi party, military, and regime had no clue about the "wholesale slaughter of jews" until after the war. Most knew about the imprisonment, similar to the internment camps here in the US during the war, but the actual executions were kept very down-low. Of the ones that did know about the executions en mass, majority had issue with it, and famously some officers defected, some tried to assassinate Hitler, and some were themselves imprisoned for not cooperating and going along. The point is, just because there are a few who use their religion, affiliations, or power to drive forward an agenda, does not mean the entire mass thinks or feels the same way.

boynamedsue 12y ago

This is one of the few instances on HN where I've immediately felt the need to downvote a comment.

keyme 12y ago
Why? Is it because in your sheltered view of reality all religions are reformed, and everyone is just longing to live by the values you believe in? Please. Just as smaller cults that are considered to be dangerous. The freedom of religions that have something to say about who lives and who dies should be "reconsidered". You can say that Christians have some extremists too, and that's true. These rules need to apply to them too. However, you don't see the Pope calling for the extermination of the infidels, do you?
- boynamedsue 12y ago
  No. It's because I don't think 1.5 billion people can easily be categorized by the actions of a minority.

gorhill 12y ago

I blame unnaccountability.

gorhill 12y ago
I had this in mind when I posted my comment: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/10/06/law-3 http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/10/06/law-3 Of course the context is entirely different, yet many aspects are similar. To me it appears it is power with no accountability which lead to these abuses. You can find this everywhere, no need to attribute it to one specific religion.

primitivesuave 12y ago

Please don't pollute HN. It's the last sanctuary I have from comments like this.

rustyconover 12y ago

I blame ignorance rather than religion. A particular religion is the flavor of the week or few centuries, but lack of actual understanding is the reason for this situation and most other religious strife. For if people understood what this man did, like all of us do, they'd see their accusations are without merit. Education and religion were tightly intertwined for centuries and still are in the regions with most the perceived "problems" now. Often the only education you can receive in these countries and regions is at a madras and perspectives outside of the dogma in the curriculum don't exist and are suppressed. Say what you want about the US and Western education system's failings, but it sure gets this part of the test 100% right. Of course, discounting strange behavior in Texas regarding creationism and disputing evolution. And a few other rural places pushing their locally artisan agendas of ignorance.

jculvey 12y ago

Then how do you explain things like genocide in Rwanda and cartel killings in Central America? Islam? The fact of the matter is, humans by and large have been pretty shitty throughout history. Some places in this world are on a different timeline. Some happen to be Muslim countries, others happen to be Christian, and some have no majority religion at all. Stoning people for adultery, beheading people over drug possession, and a lack of women's rights are all things you could criticize muslim countries for wrt Shariah law. Torturing people over political dissent isn't.