8 ms·

Simple approach which while took some time, did work great for me in long term: - register on odesk.com and elance.com (same owner, but slightly different proj

by hippich 12y ago

Simple approach which while took some time, did work great for me in long term: - register on odesk.com and elance.com (same owner, but slightly different projects there) - start from very low hourly rate to build history and feedbacks. Make sure that every client is super happy and leave only 5 stars. Try to focus on small projects in the beginning (you don't want to get stuck on large project with low hourly rate, and bumping hourly rate in the middle project both unfair and hard to do) - As you get projects closed (also reason to start with small project - to close these quickly) follow with client to make sure he leave nice review. In the very beginning you don't want really to focus on relationship, since these clients unlikely be able to pay higher rate in future, but you have to get to get project to complete client satisfaction. - Bump hourly rate few dollars every week/months/x projects/x dollars billed. You need to find perfect formula here for yourself. Good signal to bump rate - when you get offers to work on project and you don't feel like you will be able to do it 'cos of a time constraints. - If project does not satisfy your curiosity or feels like a BS project (this all will be based on what you personally like and do not like to do) - never decline projects, but instead make a "fuck you bid", where you multiply your "normal" bid by x2 / x5 / x10 (again, you will need to find perfect formula here). Idea is that you never say "no", but instead make client say "no" or get paid a lot for doing something you do not want. This also makes you look more expensive and your work more precious. - Don't be afraid to bump rate. It is a bit contradictory, but in my practice very often well paid work came with very reasonable clients, and work where project was on very tight budget came with manager-jerk. Somehow when you charge a lot, clients respect you more. - Do all of this until you reach point where total revenue will start dropping off or you find yourself without necessary projects. It is very important to keep in mind that 100% "employment" should not be main driver behind hourly rate pricing. You need to find optimal balance of number of hours you need to spent on projects vs. your hobby project or self-education. It is MUCH better spend 20 hours a week at $50/hr vs. 40 hours a week at $25/hr. Hope this helps :)

subdane 12y ago
I'd upvote twice if I could. In my previous business, I learned these lessons the hard way. Higher paying clients are nicer to work with. One regret is that I didn't spend enough time on "sales and marketing", which seemed like BS and a waste of time. Devote 30% of your time to it. Don't be afraid to ask for testimonials, keep a regular newsletter going, let everyone know what you're looking for and what you're good at.
- gdiocarez 12y ago
  Thanks, I'll ask for testimonials from clients.
jprince 12y ago
Did pretty much this exact sequence, with the caveat that I would get larger projects hooked on my ability and then bumped rates. At one point I was making 100$/hr. Then the client offered me a CTO position. Go figure, I took it. :)
icpmacdo 12y ago
What level of experience would a person need to start taking small projects on Odesk and Elance?
- hippich 12y ago
  If you can code at least a bit, can install WordPress, can write simple desktop util in C#, you should be able to find project to start and learn as you go.
quaffapint 12y ago
I often wondered how you even get started at places like elance. Job postings go up and within a day like 20+ proposals are already there with most from 4.9+ ratings. Why would anyone ever pick someone new when they have so many choices of already highly rated people? I don't know what they are charging, but I have to imagine with so many, that they all can't be very high.
- dcarmo 12y ago
  I have the same feeling. Even if I apply with a low rate, there's always 20+ in front of me. Clients don't even have time to answer everyone (my guess).
  - marktangotango 12y ago
    My experience hiring for jobs on those site is most of those responses or bidders clearly have not read the requiements. You can distinguish yourself by giving clear evidence in your bid you understand the requirements, and importantly, note areas where clarification is needed. Also, a lot of bidders respond with, why not use framework or service X? Don't do that.
- hippich 12y ago
  Look for odd project. I.e. not "Need wordpress developer", but rather "Need to virtual assistant" with description like "Need to grab data from site X and enter it into Y". And use your programming skills to automate process :) There are a lot of projects and certain type of project description indeed attract 100+ bidders who basically just spam. I've been on both sides and know how frustrating it can be. On the other hand I personally reported for spam 100+ applicants trying to find real gems and was able. So my advice will be - keep trying and try different projects.
- mbuenon 12y ago
  Some things that can help: 1. Don't compete on price. Demonstrate your expertise, part experience doing similar projects, etc. Links to past wins (app store, stack, github) will go a long long way for clients to pay for premium. Those sites have clients picking large agencies for large projects. 2. Personalize your application: Several of the 20+ applications that you mention come from "copy/pasting/spam". If you feel passionate about a job, include your take on the problem and process you'd follow to solve. 3. Pimp your profile. Profile videos, portfolio, links to past experience help make up for the lack of jobs on oDesk or Elance. You can now add a video introducing yourself. That can go a long way to earn trust and show off your professionalism.
hippich 12y ago
Crossposted to my blog - feel free to comment or reach me there - http://pavel.karoukin.us/node/15 http://pavel.karoukin.us/node/15
gdiocarez 12y ago
I have seen projects on a flat rate of $5/hr though competition is high. I'll try hitting on small projects to build my reputation at the same time, my skills. Thank you for the advise.

by hippich 12y ago

subdane 12y ago

I'd upvote twice if I could. In my previous business, I learned these lessons the hard way. Higher paying clients are nicer to work with. One regret is that I didn't spend enough time on "sales and marketing", which seemed like BS and a waste of time. Devote 30% of your time to it. Don't be afraid to ask for testimonials, keep a regular newsletter going, let everyone know what you're looking for and what you're good at.

gdiocarez 12y ago
Thanks, I'll ask for testimonials from clients.

jprince 12y ago

Did pretty much this exact sequence, with the caveat that I would get larger projects hooked on my ability and then bumped rates. At one point I was making 100$/hr. Then the client offered me a CTO position. Go figure, I took it. :)

icpmacdo 12y ago

What level of experience would a person need to start taking small projects on Odesk and Elance?

hippich 12y ago
If you can code at least a bit, can install WordPress, can write simple desktop util in C#, you should be able to find project to start and learn as you go.

quaffapint 12y ago

I often wondered how you even get started at places like elance. Job postings go up and within a day like 20+ proposals are already there with most from 4.9+ ratings. Why would anyone ever pick someone new when they have so many choices of already highly rated people? I don't know what they are charging, but I have to imagine with so many, that they all can't be very high.

dcarmo 12y ago
I have the same feeling. Even if I apply with a low rate, there's always 20+ in front of me. Clients don't even have time to answer everyone (my guess).
- marktangotango 12y ago
  My experience hiring for jobs on those site is most of those responses or bidders clearly have not read the requiements. You can distinguish yourself by giving clear evidence in your bid you understand the requirements, and importantly, note areas where clarification is needed. Also, a lot of bidders respond with, why not use framework or service X? Don't do that.
hippich 12y ago
Look for odd project. I.e. not "Need wordpress developer", but rather "Need to virtual assistant" with description like "Need to grab data from site X and enter it into Y". And use your programming skills to automate process :) There are a lot of projects and certain type of project description indeed attract 100+ bidders who basically just spam. I've been on both sides and know how frustrating it can be. On the other hand I personally reported for spam 100+ applicants trying to find real gems and was able. So my advice will be - keep trying and try different projects.
mbuenon 12y ago
Some things that can help: 1. Don't compete on price. Demonstrate your expertise, part experience doing similar projects, etc. Links to past wins (app store, stack, github) will go a long long way for clients to pay for premium. Those sites have clients picking large agencies for large projects. 2. Personalize your application: Several of the 20+ applications that you mention come from "copy/pasting/spam". If you feel passionate about a job, include your take on the problem and process you'd follow to solve. 3. Pimp your profile. Profile videos, portfolio, links to past experience help make up for the lack of jobs on oDesk or Elance. You can now add a video introducing yourself. That can go a long way to earn trust and show off your professionalism.

hippich 12y ago

Crossposted to my blog - feel free to comment or reach me there - http://pavel.karoukin.us/node/15 http://pavel.karoukin.us/node/15

gdiocarez 12y ago

I have seen projects on a flat rate of $5/hr though competition is high. I'll try hitting on small projects to build my reputation at the same time, my skills. Thank you for the advise.