5 ms·

$100 an hour is a rough journeyman rate in a lot of US metro areas. This implies that you're able to take a description of what software should do, implement i

by patio11 12y ago

$100 an hour is a rough journeyman rate in a lot of US metro areas. This implies that you're able to take a description of what software should do, implement it in code, have that code actually work at accomplishing the objective, and deliver it in a fashion instantly consumable to your clients. Also, it is a plus if you don't require handholding to do this. Self-assess honestly on whether you're there yet. If you are, your new rate is $100 an hour, and you should spend the next several weeks pitching clients on why they should have you build a system for them. Where to get seed clients? I'd start by working your pre-existing clients, either for direct work (if allowed under your contract with the ex-employer and local norms) or for introductions to similarly-situated firms, if they were good clients. If not, skip it, find good clients. Relocation is not necessary and, short term, will neither sell engagements nor immediately improve your situation.

pan69 12y ago
What you say is true but many clients will prefer to pay $100 ph for a local guy they can meet face to face rather than outsourcing overseas. I don't mean to devalue the abilities of OP but one of his strengths is his economic favour, i.e. if OP's skill set is equal to a US metro area journeyman then price is definitely a selling point taking into account without it having a major impact on OP.
- pjmorris 12y ago
  OP doesn't need all the clients, just enough to keep him busy. Let's say that's five clients. Perhaps there are five or more clients in the world who'd be willing to pay the $100 rate to work remotely with someone. Why should he cut his price without finding out?
  - pan69 12y ago
    Oh. That's certainly true and OP should definitely try. However, all I'm trying to say is that clients will have expectations regarding price/cost working with someone who's located in the Philippines. Again, it's not my intention to devalue OP's skills and/or experience. What I'm trying to say is that the hourly rate doesn't have much to do with skills or experience but with the economy of the place you're located. I.e. why does a developer located in New York City charge more than a developer located in the Philippines? Both can be just as good at their job, it's just that "their" costs are different because their local economy is different. Therefore a client located in NYC who approaches a developer in the Philippines will have expectations regarding an hourly rate of that developer. I.e. why would I as a client want to work with someone far far away while I can work with someone face to face for the same cost? The primary reason a client located in NYC who wants to work with someone located in the Philippines will be cost and it's the reduction in cost that this developer uses as advantage over developers located in NYC. I believe StackOverflow did a similar thing when they hired developers all over the world. The salaries of the developers were based on the local economy. Not on NYC or SF economies.
    - lifeisstillgood 12y ago
      I would be very surprised to find a (small) company usin local economy rates. I would assume the fairly massive disparity in wages for a person doing the same job is going to cause a lot of resentment.
      - pan69 12y ago
        I think it's more likely the other way around. E.g. you have a team with one developer located in NYC making $100 USD ph and a developer in rural Romania making $100 USD ph. Both of equal skills. The NYC developer makes a good wage, enough to pay off his 30 year mortgage and the developer in Romania will be richer than the president of his country after a year of salary. I think that will cause more resentment amongst your development team.
        lifeisstillgood 12y ago
        Bt he won't be richer - two flights to the US and a hotel stay for his family will hurt as much as his US compatriot. Yes he will spend far less on basic living - but paying for his sons medical treatment will be far more worrying (more expensive in US but also more likely to work) There is a reason Mexicans cross a border instead of remote cardless working.
        rmc 12y ago
        Computer equipement costs the same roughly the world over. Sure someone in Philipines can buy locally made bread cheaply, but they can't buy locally made cheap smartphones.
pitt1980 12y ago
You almost certainly know more about this than I do, I remember reading something you wrote a while back about tying the pricing of your appointment software to the costs of one missed appointment a month I don't have experience freelancing but it seems like that s sort of what he should be doing here too, try to dollarize the value of what he's building and then justify prices based off that, not what it takes for him to survive
larrys 12y ago
"This implies that you're able to take a description of what software should do, implement it in code, have that code actually work at accomplishing the objective, and deliver it in a fashion instantly consumable to your clients. " What about knowing enough about security when writing the code to be able to avoid obvious and non obvious pitfalls? How does someone with little experience even know what they don't know about that?
- enraged_camel 12y ago
  To me, stuff like that is what distinguishes a journeyman from a beginner. As a beginner you can still build working programs, but as a journeyman you have enough experience to avoid obvious mistakes.

by patio11 12y ago

pan69 12y ago

What you say is true but many clients will prefer to pay $100 ph for a local guy they can meet face to face rather than outsourcing overseas. I don't mean to devalue the abilities of OP but one of his strengths is his economic favour, i.e. if OP's skill set is equal to a US metro area journeyman then price is definitely a selling point taking into account without it having a major impact on OP.

pjmorris 12y ago
OP doesn't need all the clients, just enough to keep him busy. Let's say that's five clients. Perhaps there are five or more clients in the world who'd be willing to pay the $100 rate to work remotely with someone. Why should he cut his price without finding out?
- pan69 12y ago
  Oh. That's certainly true and OP should definitely try. However, all I'm trying to say is that clients will have expectations regarding price/cost working with someone who's located in the Philippines. Again, it's not my intention to devalue OP's skills and/or experience. What I'm trying to say is that the hourly rate doesn't have much to do with skills or experience but with the economy of the place you're located. I.e. why does a developer located in New York City charge more than a developer located in the Philippines? Both can be just as good at their job, it's just that "their" costs are different because their local economy is different. Therefore a client located in NYC who approaches a developer in the Philippines will have expectations regarding an hourly rate of that developer. I.e. why would I as a client want to work with someone far far away while I can work with someone face to face for the same cost? The primary reason a client located in NYC who wants to work with someone located in the Philippines will be cost and it's the reduction in cost that this developer uses as advantage over developers located in NYC. I believe StackOverflow did a similar thing when they hired developers all over the world. The salaries of the developers were based on the local economy. Not on NYC or SF economies.
  - lifeisstillgood 12y ago
    I would be very surprised to find a (small) company usin local economy rates. I would assume the fairly massive disparity in wages for a person doing the same job is going to cause a lot of resentment.
    - pan69 12y ago
      I think it's more likely the other way around. E.g. you have a team with one developer located in NYC making $100 USD ph and a developer in rural Romania making $100 USD ph. Both of equal skills. The NYC developer makes a good wage, enough to pay off his 30 year mortgage and the developer in Romania will be richer than the president of his country after a year of salary. I think that will cause more resentment amongst your development team.
      - lifeisstillgood 12y ago
        Bt he won't be richer - two flights to the US and a hotel stay for his family will hurt as much as his US compatriot. Yes he will spend far less on basic living - but paying for his sons medical treatment will be far more worrying (more expensive in US but also more likely to work) There is a reason Mexicans cross a border instead of remote cardless working.
      - rmc 12y ago
        Computer equipement costs the same roughly the world over. Sure someone in Philipines can buy locally made bread cheaply, but they can't buy locally made cheap smartphones.

pitt1980 12y ago

You almost certainly know more about this than I do, I remember reading something you wrote a while back about tying the pricing of your appointment software to the costs of one missed appointment a month I don't have experience freelancing but it seems like that s sort of what he should be doing here too, try to dollarize the value of what he's building and then justify prices based off that, not what it takes for him to survive

larrys 12y ago

"This implies that you're able to take a description of what software should do, implement it in code, have that code actually work at accomplishing the objective, and deliver it in a fashion instantly consumable to your clients. " What about knowing enough about security when writing the code to be able to avoid obvious and non obvious pitfalls? How does someone with little experience even know what they don't know about that?

enraged_camel 12y ago
To me, stuff like that is what distinguishes a journeyman from a beginner. As a beginner you can still build working programs, but as a journeyman you have enough experience to avoid obvious mistakes.